Are Lapua having a laugh?

[Bowland blades]

Every business will have different operating costs and then a top brand name allow for up selling.

Absolutely and BQ sell loads more kitchens and make way more profit than the one i put in even though it cost me a load more . The question is simply one of cost v benefit Over £1 Lapua exceeded that equation for me personally on my last lot , for my purposes

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Put a case catcher on your AR then.

 

[MGD]

I purchased 500 fed 215m primers from fultons bisley cost £120 everyone else charge £125 per thousand

 

[Stalker62]

I purchased 500 fed 215m primers from fultons bisley cost £120 everyone else charge £125 per thousand

Which begs the question...

 

[Liveonce]

I purchased 500 fed 215m primers from fultons bisley cost £120 everyone else charge £125 per thousand

I guess if you needed them you had no choice, but at £240 per thousand that is getting silly.

 

[MGD]

Stalker 1962 not so sure about the question but the answer is I will never cross there door step again (the list of company's never to deal with again is getting longer)

 

[paul o']

We will pay and be happy and sing with joy to find the stock we need even if the Small UK trade bump there prices up ! they know they can bend us to there will . if we won't to shoot we will pay the price !!. Thats if you can find stock that is ? powder primers brass the list go's on, and just like fuel! will it come back down when its all done and dusted ? Nahh will it feck we will just get used to paying the inflated price even if there is a glut the price will not be as it were 3 years ago .

 

[Len the dog]

I don’t bother with lapoop in my hunting rifles and never have. The only two rifles that use lapoop no matter what are the 6mmbr and 6.5X47 other than that I have no choice.

6.5 creedmoor uses starlight
.308 once fired RWS
.223 PPU

I can reload all these calibres and not cry about a piece of brass falling into long grass on a quick reload when covering a shot animal or moving onto a second animal when culling. They all offer great accuracy. Maybe not 10 re-loads but then I don’t have the time to be annealing necks or the inclination to buy an annealer to retain neck tension. That’s of my brass makes it back home to even be reloaded.

How much is Hornady super performance a box?

53gr V-max are 30p each now days. PPU brass 38p, primer 10p ish, powder 6p per round based on 15000 grains in kilo of N133. 652 rounds at 23gr at a cost of £100 a kilo. Hope my maths works out. 84.5p a round of .223. £16.90 for 20.

Close enough.
1kg = 15,432gr, at 23gr loads that would give 671 loads, therefore 100.00/671 = 15p for powder.

So, 15+30+38+10 = 93p a bang. However that 38p for brass may give 5 loads, so 1 load at 93p & 4 subsequent loads at 55p, average cost then equals 63p each (£12.60 a box), assuming you don't lose any of course.

 

[tim@tcs]

I can reload all these calibres and not cry about a piece of brass falling into long grass on a quick reload when covering a shot animal or moving onto a second animal when culling

Imagine my horror at losing a case on the range that I had bought new, shortened, necked down and only fired once!
I was gutted, I suspect I may be happier when I replace the chest freezer and find all the cases that rolled off and down behind!

 

[scotch_egg]

Close enough.
1kg = 15,432gr, at 23gr loads that would give 671 loads, therefore 100.00/671 = 15p for powder.

So, 15+30+38+10 = 93p a bang. However that 38p for brass may give 5 loads, so 1 load at 93p & 4 subsequent loads at 55p, average cost then equals 63p each (£12.60 a box), assuming you don't lose any of course.

Math was never a strong point. I thought I was off when I saw 6.5p for powder. I was doing 671/100. Oops.

I rounded down to 15000 grains a kilo. I’m butter fingers and always spill some no matter how careful I am

I’ve also been lucky to have been gifted 1500 cci400 so that brings my personal loading costs down substantially.

 

[Len the dog]

Math was never a strong point. I thought I was off when I saw 6.5p for powder. I was doing 671/100. Oops.

I rounded down to 15000 grains a kilo. I’m butter fingers and always spill some no matter how careful I am

I’ve also been lucky to have been gifted 1500 cci400 so that brings my personal loading costs down substantially.

I managed to source quite a few boxes of Remington 22-250 SPs for a tenner a box, they’re absolutely crap but at that price it would be worth pulling them and recovering the brass, primers and powder and reloading them with Vmax.

 

[MarinePMI]

seriously i just bough 100 rounds of Hornaday factory ammo for less per round than my normal costs on just the Lapua brass !
I really dont buy factory but i know the .223 i just bought shoots the super performance really well. I think i am done with the brand , soon as my last Lapua has had it i doubt i will be carrying on with my other rifles . Companies that raise their prices regards their ability to in the market always face poor new customer acquisition and existing customer retention .
All for Fixing the Russian aggression but come on Guys , i have bought Lapua for decades and if i dont see the rises from others and your not the sole supplier ?

You might consider trying to find NAMMO 5.56 brass (if it's sold over there). Usually a fraction of the cost of Lapua (like a 1/3), but made in the Lapua/NAMMO facility to basically the same spec as Lapua stamped cases (no final polish though, so annealing marks are present, as mandated by military contract). Probably one of the best kept "secrets" of .223 brass....

 

[Bowland blades]

You might consider trying to find NAMMO 5.56 brass (if it's sold over there). Usually a fraction of the cost of Lapua (like a 1/3), but made in the Lapua/NAMMO facility to basically the same spec as Lapua stamped cases (no final polish though, so annealing marks are present, as mandated by military contract). Probably one of the best kept "secrets" of .223 brass....

sounds good but never come accross it ! Perhaps that's why Britain is often termed Treasure Island in terms of trade , banking an immigration ? Shows its got little to do with the price of raw materials though .

 

[Heym SR20]

I suspect a lot of price rises we are seeing is due to the shear embuggerance and incompetence of customs and immigration. It’s probably OK if you are big business - eg supermarkets, but is a bloody nightmare if you are an SME - and most in the firearms / shooting industry fall into this category.

For one of my clients its six weeks to get products too and from the continent. These are electronic components made in the UK and within the EU. All paperwork etc filled in correctly. It’s just that smallish value commercial packages - c£30k are just being overlooked, whilst the big boys just muscle through.

And the cost is huge, especially if many are using cash flow / trade finance to fund order books. Typically this costs c4 to 5% per month. This is fine if the goods arrive within a few days of order. So a £10k worth of goods will cost £200 (2 weeks or so) to fund.

Now add 6 weeks and you are paying 10% cost. Thats £1,000 on £10k of orders. That hurts any business.

Or if the company is funding its own order book, then it still hurts hugely as cash is tied up. So when you have £30k sitting in customs, you are not going to be to use that cash until the goods are released and then payments flow.

And for companies these delays will mean one or more of the following:
- a need to increase prices to compensate
- reductions in margins / profits on each order / tranche of goods
- a reduction in overall turnover, given that cash keeps getting tied up, so number of orders per year is reduced
- no cash to allow business to grow and prosper - no growth in wages, jobs or taxes to government

Jacob Rees-Mogg will not agree, but fundamentally the UK shooting sector relies on imports and all the extra controls imposed on movement are really starting to hurt business.

Add to that Sterling is not very strong, no wonder the UK is suffering and we are seeing cost of products going up 14%.

But as I will be reminded - the UK voted for this mess.

 

[25 Sharps]

Bush wear have a Sale on lapua .308, 6.5x55 and .308 brass at the moment if anyone is interested

 

[Bavarianbrit]

I suspect a lot of price rises we are seeing is due to the shear embuggerance and incompetence of customs and immigration. It’s probably OK if you are big business - eg supermarkets, but is a bloody nightmare if you are an SME - and most in the firearms / shooting industry fall into this category.

For one of my clients its six weeks to get products too and from the continent. These are electronic components made in the UK and within the EU. All paperwork etc filled in correctly. It’s just that smallish value commercial packages - c£30k are just being overlooked, whilst the big boys just muscle through.

And the cost is huge, especially if many are using cash flow / trade finance to fund order books. Typically this costs c4 to 5% per month. This is fine if the goods arrive within a few days of order. So a £10k worth of goods will cost £200 (2 weeks or so) to fund.

Now add 6 weeks and you are paying 10% cost. Thats £1,000 on £10k of orders. That hurts any business.

Or if the company is funding its own order book, then it still hurts hugely as cash is tied up. So when you have £30k sitting in customs, you are not going to be to use that cash until the goods are released and then payments flow.

And for companies these delays will mean one or more of the following:
- a need to increase prices to compensate
- reductions in margins / profits on each order / tranche of goods
- a reduction in overall turnover, given that cash keeps getting tied up, so number of orders per year is reduced
- no cash to allow business to grow and prosper - no growth in wages, jobs or taxes to government

Jacob Rees-Mogg will not agree, but fundamentally the UK shooting sector relies on imports and all the extra controls imposed on movement are really starting to hurt business.

Add to that Sterling is not very strong, no wonder the UK is suffering and we are seeing cost of products going up 14%.

But as I will be reminded - the UK voted for this mess.

Nobody will thank you for saying it (the kings clothes).

 

[Heym SR20]

Nobody will thank you for saying it (the kings clothes).

But of course the Emperor still has clothes on. The fact he is covered in gooses bumps and suffering hypothermia is totally irrelevant. It’s all the fault of the Russians and the pandemic and global energy prices. The fact that we are the worst performing in the G7 is purely down to these factors, because the likes of Germany, Italy, France were only reliant on Russian gas for a fairly large amount of their energy, whereas we had very little demand on Russian gas and oil, and that the EU and the rest of G7 had very good trade links with each other, and we have to forge new ones is irrelevant. And if all the rest keep on growing and we don’t doesn’t really matter cos we are not really in competition with them nor worried about comparative wealth and living standards. Oh and the Western Australians want all our best people to go live on the edge of the desert in Western Australia so its all OK then.

 

[Leec6.5]

14% on my calcs and they where already top end , TBF i have also had a few different quality issues , they do last though a good few firings but not if you loose them in cover and few would push the firings too far in comps

That’s not really a lot, when you can reload and 10 times.

 

[Cumbrian 1]

I suspect a lot of price rises we are seeing is due to the shear embuggerance and incompetence of customs and immigration. It’s probably OK if you are big business - eg supermarkets, but is a bloody nightmare if you are an SME - and most in the firearms / shooting industry fall into this category.

For one of my clients its six weeks to get products too and from the continent. These are electronic components made in the UK and within the EU. All paperwork etc filled in correctly. It’s just that smallish value commercial packages - c£30k are just being overlooked, whilst the big boys just muscle through.

And the cost is huge, especially if many are using cash flow / trade finance to fund order books. Typically this costs c4 to 5% per month. This is fine if the goods arrive within a few days of order. So a £10k worth of goods will cost £200 (2 weeks or so) to fund.

Now add 6 weeks and you are paying 10% cost. Thats £1,000 on £10k of orders. That hurts any business.

Or if the company is funding its own order book, then it still hurts hugely as cash is tied up. So when you have £30k sitting in customs, you are not going to be to use that cash until the goods are released and then payments flow.

And for companies these delays will mean one or more of the following:
- a need to increase prices to compensate
- reductions in margins / profits on each order / tranche of goods
- a reduction in overall turnover, given that cash keeps getting tied up, so number of orders per year is reduced
- no cash to allow business to grow and prosper - no growth in wages, jobs or taxes to government

Jacob Rees-Mogg will not agree, but fundamentally the UK shooting sector relies on imports and all the extra controls imposed on movement are really starting to hurt business.

Add to that Sterling is not very strong, no wonder the UK is suffering and we are seeing cost of products going up 14%.

But as I will be reminded - the UK voted for this mess.

Sounds like your client has a Mickey Mouse setup, I’m pretty sure pre brexit many companies traded with countries outside of the EU with zero issues.

Companies were given any amount of warning, when I look at the rest of the world it seems as though the EU is no better off with inflation and supply issues.

The idea that inflation and the woes of the economy is somehow down to import delays is delusional, the reality is that when the world’s economy is in a downturn no country or bloc is immune.

I can’t think of anything that is hard to get except Hodgson powder but that of course was down to the EU.

The left wing press love to talk this country’s prospects down but I’m sure we’ll survive.

 

[HonestJohn]

Blame BREXIT (again)

We'll likely in our lifetimes see shooting becoming a marginalised hobby for the specialists target shooters who have disposable income enough to willingly set aside for the luxury of making things go bang and watch a hole develop on a piece of paper in exchange. Such is the world as it goes, everything goes up in price more than income levels, squeezing out those not having 'made it'.

I know one thing, income going up by inflation, or at all for that matter (down in relative terms), cost of living, inflation, etc and moan on and on - things like practice and target shooting, a Sunday drive, driving to conduct a hobby, seeing family regularly, shopping trips, 'popping into town', going on holiday, etc, all gone, off the table, can't imagine any time soon when any of those will come back.

The US has bucked the trend and have through fiscal stimulus packages and quantitative measures kicked inflation and returned growth, Europe is lagging, but UK is in a rut,,,smog hanging over us like in the industrial revolution. little RFD cornershops cannot overcome price increases or negotiate with suppliers through large volume orders, plus the added cost of import post-BREXIT.

did I mention BREXIT