Syndicates can be effective, depending on how they are run.
Are Syndicates effective?
- Thread starter Husk
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TundB
Well-Known Member
It depends on syndicate really.
There are syndicates charging their members an arm and a leg and don’t expect them to make any positive impact in managing the deer. Their business aim is not managing deer numbers obviously they make money off syndicate members. Don’t expect experienced stalkers to join in them and don’t expect those syndicate members to show dedicated commitment as they are not there to do the job. They pay to get a service really.
On the other hand, there are non-commercial working syndicates doing proper job.
There are syndicates charging their members an arm and a leg and don’t expect them to make any positive impact in managing the deer. Their business aim is not managing deer numbers obviously they make money off syndicate members. Don’t expect experienced stalkers to join in them and don’t expect those syndicate members to show dedicated commitment as they are not there to do the job. They pay to get a service really.
On the other hand, there are non-commercial working syndicates doing proper job.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
The objectives vary from one place to the next. Some places want the deer flattened, others are run with sustainability in mind. Damage prevention is often cited as the objective, but it is often overstated, and not backed up by evidence. That being said, where damage is indeed a major issue, then the owner or manager should be looking at paying a full time professional to reduce the numbers, and forget about trying to ‘have the cake and eating it’ too.
They can be effective or otherwise in achieving the objective, according to how the approach to either scenario (or indeed others) is met by the group, however it’s useful to consider too just how realistic the objective set actually is.
They can be effective or otherwise in achieving the objective, according to how the approach to either scenario (or indeed others) is met by the group, however it’s useful to consider too just how realistic the objective set actually is.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Surely if you're paying to stalk, you're compensating the landowner for the damage caused by deer or at least compensating them for the meat you're taking.
If you're paying then it's up to you what you shoot or how often otherwise you're doing a job for someone else and paying to do it.
If you're paying then it's up to you what you shoot or how often otherwise you're doing a job for someone else and paying to do it.
EMcC
Well-Known Member
It didn't work out for me. I was recruited to take the place of one individual that only attended a few time a year and then only looking for trophies.
The lease holder was a Game Dealer and required carcasses through his Game Handling business.
As I lived local was asked to help him out so I did.
I visited the area once a week and kept the Range area tidy and replaced targetry. I did this because one of the members used the range running courses, I put an extra rung on most of the high seats so that you didn't have to 'dangle' your legs over the edge when sitting in them, I also put and replaced scrim on some of the box seats.
As a result of my weekly visits I also put a few Fallow through his larder.
All well and good so far.
Then a new guy took over the lease and, probably because he didn't know exactly what I did, kicked me out of the syndicate and I didn't get the chance to tell him because as soon as I asked about renewing my membership he interrupted me and said that I had my moneys worth and put the phone down.
That was a heavily populated area of the New Forest with no shortage of Fallow with the a few Roe and Muntjac.
Now there are only a few members who do not live local, London mostly, so the Deer are running riot over areas that people are not too happy about.
The lease holder was a Game Dealer and required carcasses through his Game Handling business.
As I lived local was asked to help him out so I did.
I visited the area once a week and kept the Range area tidy and replaced targetry. I did this because one of the members used the range running courses, I put an extra rung on most of the high seats so that you didn't have to 'dangle' your legs over the edge when sitting in them, I also put and replaced scrim on some of the box seats.
As a result of my weekly visits I also put a few Fallow through his larder.
All well and good so far.
Then a new guy took over the lease and, probably because he didn't know exactly what I did, kicked me out of the syndicate and I didn't get the chance to tell him because as soon as I asked about renewing my membership he interrupted me and said that I had my moneys worth and put the phone down.
That was a heavily populated area of the New Forest with no shortage of Fallow with the a few Roe and Muntjac.
Now there are only a few members who do not live local, London mostly, so the Deer are running riot over areas that people are not too happy about.
For many who are ultimately just starting out, including myself, it's pretty much the only route in. Sure you can go on various paid stalks but you're still paying akin to a syndicate and many of the issues in this thread about 'deer management' being a business with aims that aren't conducive to deer management still apply. Otherwise it feels like a total catch 22. You can't get the experience because you can't get the land, you can't get land because you don't have the experience.......
Depends as a lot of people seem to want to bi-pass the start at the bottom route, I remember a few year back on here a chap was complaining about no stalking around him, I asked if he shot rabbits/foxes he said " I want to shoot deer" not rabbits/foxes.
The experience comes for time on rabbits/rats as it is low power but lots to learn
I think this is fair to say but equally hasn't been my experience. I've tried to create various opportunities for myself to learn the fieldcraft side of stalking and help out in any way I can. I've essentially said to people I don't want to go stalking and pull a trigger I want to do everything else from building high seats to ride clearance to shadowing people simply so I can get hands on carcass time. Simply so I can learn. However, this hasn't led to any time on any ground so far etc. I've got one possible lead via the BASC stand by me scheme but otherwise it seems to be a closed shop and I only got that one response to my enquiry. Maybe people are worried that you will try and muscle in on their ground as I've read similar stories on here. Sure my long term goal is to get stalking access but even stating your honest intentions just to learn for as long as it takes doesn't really seem to work. I guess so much of it seems to be luck/right place right time.
Small holdings/horse paddocks as the girls dont like rabbit holes = rabbits. How many of those have you tried?
None to be fair. I was more commenting on trying to get into stalking even if you can get rabbiting etc, which seems to be pretty difficult. To move up you still need to be able to demonstrate experience stalking which is hard to come by outside of syndicates and paid stalks. Personally have a natural anxiety about pulling the trigger at all when I feel under experienced. Don't get me wrong clearly I've culled deer but as a general rule in life I like to be as informed as I can possibly can and getting the hands on time in stalking (outside of actual shooting) is such a challenge. It just goes back to my original point about the usefulness of syndicates but I'm aware the main thrust of the thread was syndicates as an effective deer management vehicle.
Sort of like your tag line
I don't think they are as I posted earlier, however if you want all your eggs in one basket just stick to trying to find stalking, I learn to fish in a small pond as a nipper so later in life the basics were already in place when it came to bigger lakes. Same with rabbits/rats that was in placeNone to be fair. I was more commenting on trying to get into stalking even if you can get rabbiting etc, which seems to be pretty difficult. To move up you still need to be able to demonstrate experience stalking which is hard to come by outside of syndicates and paid stalks. Personally have a natural anxiety about pulling the trigger at all when I feel under experienced. Don't get me wrong clearly I've culled deer but as a general rule in life I like to be as informed as I can possibly can and getting the hands on time in stalking (outside of actual shooting) is such a challenge. It just goes back to my original point about the usefulness of syndicates but I'm aware the main thrust of the thread was syndicates as an effective deer management vehicle.
Sort of like your tag line
I don't have to take a gun to work out what/where pigeons are feeding on "just watch" then go when it is ready, if I read it wrong then you always learn something.
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sikamalc
Administrator
As with everything in life, there is good and bad.
In my opinion there are more bad than good syndicates.
A good one is run by someone with a good experience of deer stalking, and a good few years under their belt. Also able to plan ahead, whilst keeping both landowner and syndicate members happy. If the right people, with the right skills and time, knowledge and commitment are in the syndicate, it can work.
On the flip side, most of the syndicates I have seen and heard of tend to be nothing more than a quick way of making money for those running it, with little knowledge or experience in deer stalking.
Some claim to have ground they don't even have the rights too. Its a way of catching people out and drawing them in. Stalking has become popular and ground is in high demand, and its easy to catch newbies out with a promise of lots of deer and land. In many cases there isn't a chance of seeing a deer on the ground.
Good syndicates are out there, but their quite a rare beast.
In my opinion there are more bad than good syndicates.
A good one is run by someone with a good experience of deer stalking, and a good few years under their belt. Also able to plan ahead, whilst keeping both landowner and syndicate members happy. If the right people, with the right skills and time, knowledge and commitment are in the syndicate, it can work.
On the flip side, most of the syndicates I have seen and heard of tend to be nothing more than a quick way of making money for those running it, with little knowledge or experience in deer stalking.
Some claim to have ground they don't even have the rights too. Its a way of catching people out and drawing them in. Stalking has become popular and ground is in high demand, and its easy to catch newbies out with a promise of lots of deer and land. In many cases there isn't a chance of seeing a deer on the ground.
Good syndicates are out there, but their quite a rare beast.
Ronin
Distinguished Member
I helped run a deer management group on two areas in Yorkshire
The group managed a total of 5000 acres of forestry for a little over 17 yrs
It was run with costs covering the lease passed on to those involved only - no gain
During that time the members of the group effectively removed a reasonable number of deer from each area annually with damage being a measured sub 5%
We lost the smaller area to a syndicate group known personally to the new forester who took over managment of the ground
We lost the larger area due to “increased damage” though there being no evidence of this and our group putting an average over ten years of 270 man days stalking on the ground annually
That area is now managed by a syndicate from the midlands
Are syndicates effective - only if you have members nearby and there are regular visits and effective deer management
They are not effective if there are “outside influences (incentives) prejudicing the decision making processes of those put in place to make impartial decisions managing the land “
Would I be part of a syndicate or run one again
Hell no
The group managed a total of 5000 acres of forestry for a little over 17 yrs
It was run with costs covering the lease passed on to those involved only - no gain
During that time the members of the group effectively removed a reasonable number of deer from each area annually with damage being a measured sub 5%
We lost the smaller area to a syndicate group known personally to the new forester who took over managment of the ground
We lost the larger area due to “increased damage” though there being no evidence of this and our group putting an average over ten years of 270 man days stalking on the ground annually
That area is now managed by a syndicate from the midlands
Are syndicates effective - only if you have members nearby and there are regular visits and effective deer management
They are not effective if there are “outside influences (incentives) prejudicing the decision making processes of those put in place to make impartial decisions managing the land “
Would I be part of a syndicate or run one again
Hell no
Veltris
Member
Syndicates usually do what they’re meant to: give the landowner a steady income and a means to reduce the cost of deer on the land and the risk they represent to profit/financial sustainability. Whether syndicates hit the actual deer management goals is a separate question, and perhaps an irrelevant one to the land owner and/or syndicate lead.
If you want guaranteed, measurable effort towards reaching specific ecological or economic targets (regeneration, reduced browse, limiting crop damage etc) you’ve got to pay someone to take that on; properly.
It’s a bit like asking your mate with a van to help you move house. He’ll probably show up, maybe bring another mate, and will hopefully shift most of it. However, if you need it done in time, carefully, professionally, and without any drama, you hire a removal firm.
One’s cheap and cheerful. The other gets the job done, regardless. Both have their uses depending on your situation.
If you want guaranteed, measurable effort towards reaching specific ecological or economic targets (regeneration, reduced browse, limiting crop damage etc) you’ve got to pay someone to take that on; properly.
It’s a bit like asking your mate with a van to help you move house. He’ll probably show up, maybe bring another mate, and will hopefully shift most of it. However, if you need it done in time, carefully, professionally, and without any drama, you hire a removal firm.
One’s cheap and cheerful. The other gets the job done, regardless. Both have their uses depending on your situation.
Callumno112
Well-Known Member
I’m in a syndicate. We don’t discuss the overall management of deer on the land. It’s more a case of shoot what’s in season. I think the land gets hit very regularly so numbers are definitely kept down
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I have never been in a deer syndicate but it seems quite different, reading here, from a game (bird) syndicate. On that the aim is to have shooting cheaper than would be achieved by buying the same level of sport "by the bird and by the day" from a commercial shoot.
It seems to me that for the person only wanting to shoot a few deer that it actually would be cheaper to buy that "by the stalk and by the beast" than being in a deer syndicate. So I have always bought my stalking since I disposed of my own land.
It seems to me that for the person only wanting to shoot a few deer that it actually would be cheaper to buy that "by the stalk and by the beast" than being in a deer syndicate. So I have always bought my stalking since I disposed of my own land.
Stevie/P
Well-Known Member
That’s precisely what I do with my small syndicate lease nothing is hidden all paperwork is distributed to all members.
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