Backstops

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Davy_jones

New Member
Good evening all,

I am a new member and new to stalking and shooting in general. I plan to attend my DSC1 within the next 6 months to help gain the knowledge needed to safely and humanely cull deer.

In the meantime I was hoping you may be able to help me, as I keep reading about backstops. Which to my understanding is classified as soft earth behind the intended target to help catch the bullet.

What about on flat fields, I have seen that you can shoot off sticks, Is this sufficient to render a flat field into a safe backstop?
Also Hedges, what about big thick stone hedges?

Thanks in advance

DJ
 
If you're on a flat field shooting off sticks standing up then you are shooting downwards, just at a shallow angle so you just have to be aware that the bullet will go further behind the animal than if you were more elevated before it reaches earth.

If you're ultimately pointing your rifle towards soft earth (with the deer in the path of the trajectory) then you have a safe backstop.

Ground is not usually 100% plumb line flat and there are usually mounds and gullys one can take advantage of.

Where ground is very flat though many people choose to place high seats to mitigate this issue. I've been to a few places where it's high seat shooting only in certain locations.

The ONLY safe backstop is soft earth that will catch and completely stop the bullet - end of story.

Stone means ricochet risk, hedges could have animals or people behind them... A rising bank of soft earth is the only safe backstop and the safety test of DSC1 is very specific about this. You have to get 100% in the safety test and if you suggest taking a shot at a deer that's up against a hedge (a common set up in the DSC1 safety exam) then you will fail it.
 
Last edited:
Davy_jones said:
Good evening all,

I am a new member and new to stalking and shooting in general. I plan to attend my DSC1 within the next 6 months to help gain the knowledge needed to safely and humanely cull deer.

In the meantime I was hoping you may be able to help me, as I keep reading about backstops. Which to my understanding is classified as soft earth behind the intended target to help catch the bullet.

What about on flat fields, I have seen that you can shoot off sticks, Is this sufficient to render a flat field into a safe backstop?
Also Hedges, what about big thick stone hedges?

Thanks in advance

DJ
Click to expand...


I think that one one of the courses I went on, I was told that as a general rule you need to be able to see twice the height of the deer above the deer to be comfortable that you have sufficient backstop. So, if you are shooting off sticks over flat-ish ground, can you see two times the height of the animal above it?

Hedges and Woods definitely do not count as backstops. You can shoot straight through them and you can't see what is behind.

As Stubear says, soft earth is what you need. Stone is not acceptable, and I was even told that standing water a danger of ricochet.
 
In true essence yes a raising mound of soft earth is your backstop and that's it if you want to pass the DSC1 safety test.
In reality if everyone adeered to that principle there would be very few deer shot, not saying people take unsafe shots but there are other factors such as
Experience, knowing your bullets trajectory, how much energy it is carrying at distance. Even over flat ground your bullet won't continue in a flat line indefinitely,
Knowing your area, I'm sure on here people use a thick block of Forrest as backstops where a bullet would not make it past the first couple of lines of trees.
There are many more circumstances but they present themselves with experience.
Just don't let "buck fever" take over and take a moment to assess all the "what ifs" before you squeeze the trigger.
Wingy
 
I've seen ricochets from a shot into a 30 degree slope before. You have to make allowances for the climatic conditions i.e. the same backstop might be adequate if the weather is mild & damp but not if it's frosty or very dry.
 
To the OP - welcome as a new member to the forum.

Yes you are correct in that soft earth with no stones is by far the best backstop to catch the bullet, but in the real world you have to work with what is available. Fundamentally a centefire rifle will send a bullet two or three miles and will still be lethal. Depending on the bullet type a rifle bullet will go clean through two railway sleeper, or a brick wall or a deer and still have sufficient energy to be lethal.

When a bullet hit a deer (assuming using an expanding bullet) the bullet will expand and start to fragment transferring energy to the target and destroying the vital organs. In most cases the bullet will pass through the deer in pretty much a straight line and exit as mushroom shaped lump of lead - this can still go a long way and there plenty of good examples of bullets taking out another deer or two behind it. Usually it will be pretty much in a straight line, but odd things do occur and bullets can and do ricochet inside an animal and can come out in any direction.

Thus before shooting a deer or any animal you have make absolutely certain that the bullet will hit a safe backstop once it has gone through. Ideal is for the deer to be standing in front of a soft peaty mountain, but that doesn't happen often. In farmland you always want to be shooting downwards into rising ground with at least two or three handwidths of clear ground above the target - or as said above - two or three deer above the deer itself.

As mentioned above, hedges, stone walls, woodland edges, tall crops, and indeed the sky do not a good backstop Make. Nor does hard ground or short mown grass on say a golfcourse.

There are going to be plenty of times in your stalking career when you will turn down a shot as its not safe.

Calibre and choice of bullet shouldn't make any difference to your choice of backstop whether you are using a 375 H&H or a 22rf. In practice though a smaller calibre and a more frangible bullet will expand more inside the animal, dump more of its energy and may be not exit - extreme example is a 17 varmint bullet shot into a fox - no exit, but the internals will be liquidised. It can also be argued that a bigger tougher bullet will pass through in a straight line and then have sufficient energy to bury itself in the ground rather than ricochet. Trouble is once you have squeezed the trigger there is nothing you can do to bring it back.

Thus always ask the question - can or will the bullet hit something I DO NOT want to destroy?

My suggestion is to get out into the countryside and look at deer, or failing that sheep / cattle and just determine in your own mind whether or not they are safe. Even better is find somebody who is a stalker and go out with him as an observer several times.
 
If you want to find out how far bullets go after they pass through a deer, ask someone who shoots them in snow. You will get a big surprise! The comment about water is correct BTW, soft earth bank is the ONLY safe answer.
Dave
 
Davy_jones said:
Also Hedges, what about big thick stone hedges?
Click to expand...

A good Cornish hedge will stop anything and makes a pretty good backstop, as long as you have precise knowledge of the hedge & the certainty that there isn't a bramble covered gateway etc.
I can't comment on Hampshire hedges
 
[h=2]A Father’s Advice[/h]
If a sportsman true you’d be
Listen carefully to me. . .Never, never let your gun
Pointed be at anyone.
That it may unloaded be
Matters not the least to me.When a hedge or fence you cross
Though of time it cause a loss
From your gun the cartridge take
For the greater safety’s sake.If twixt you and neighbouring gun
Bird shall fly or beast may run
Let this maxim ere be thine
“Follow not across the line.”Stops and beaters oft unseen
Lurk behind some leafy screen.Calm and steady always be
“Never shoot where you can’t see.”You may kill or you may miss
But at all times think this:
“All the pheasants ever bred
Won’t repay for one man dead.”Keep your place and silent be;
Game can hear, and game can see;
Don’t be greedy, better spared
Is a pheasant, than one shared.​
 
I have bounced 22lr and .243 off wet soggy, muddy ground at a "off sticks" height

Shot a stag this year with a bloody great rock directly behind it about 2 feet away (spectacular blood and matter splatter FYI!), perfectly good back stop
Shot a roe standing next to a huge Beech tree with a 3ft trunk, perfect back stop

Unless you are shooting a paper target with a mound of sand or soft mud rising sharply up (and sometimes even then!) ANY bullet CAN ricochet

They don't follow a perfectly straight line when passing through animals, quite often exiting at 45 degrees or more to shot angle

Experience will give you a better feel for what can happen
until then assume the worst and try to
Increase shot angle into ground. (bullets going up initially, go further, obviously!)
Maintain shot direction towards least populated area (I shoot golf courses. always from the outside edge of the course in if possible)
Be aware even a malformed centrefire having passed through a deer and lost velocity can travel serious distance, assume a 1000m and you wont be far off
 
It's the really freak ones that give you serious pause for thought.

.222 head shot roe deer at 80 yards. Bullet exited at about 40 degrees left, took out the neck of the follower 20 yards behind and to the left.

.270 neck shot roe deer at 30 yards. Bullet split up, with two largest fragments embedding over an inch into tree trunks about 15 yards apart, 20 yards behind the deer.

.270 chest shot fallow. Rising ground behind, with a large rock 10 yards behind and a body length to right of deer. Bullet bounced off rock and zinged off into who knows where.

And so on...
 
bewsher500 said:
Shot a roe standing next to a huge Beech tree with a 3ft trunk, perfect back stop.
Click to expand...

I did the same on a piece of flat ground in Oxfordshire.

I'd been positioned on the flank of a move we were doing to finish off a roe doe cull and had had plenty of time to consider my options, which were: either to climb up into the big oak tree just in front of me; or to hope something walked squarely in front of it.

The chances of the latter struck me as slimmer than slim, so I was flippantly entertaining the first option, and more seriously wondering whether option three (going back to the house and settling down in front of the TV with a beer and a packet of crisps) wouldn't after all be a better move, when a doe had the good manners to appear from nowhere and then stop obligingly to scratch her backside on the tree as I levelled my rifle.

Never has deer stalking been more akin to murder.

After the move was finished, my host swung by to see how I'd done and was almost as surprised as I was to find me with a beast at my feet. Then, -after casting an eye about him, as if aware for the first time of the back-stop-less acres (his back-stop-less acres) stretching away in every direction- ventured to enquire -with a suspiciously casual air- as to where precisely each of us had been standing when the shot was taken.

I duly pointed out the line between my folding chair, the pool of gore on the ground, and the bullet hole in a tree trunk that was fuzzy with pins and well sprinkled with paint.

"Some people have all the luck," he said.
 
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