BASC statement on Home Office proposals

[Dalua]

[TABLE="class: basicTable, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]BENEFITS RECEIVED BY GROUP FROM SOURCES OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (a not-for-profit organisation) acts as the group’s secretariat and funds the group’s annual dinner.



[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

every time I write how I feel about the above, it just appears as a long row of little stars,**** *** ****

I can understand such feeling is abstract - but in the real world, an organisation like BASC must surely be expected to use our/its money if not overtly to buy political influence, then at the very least to 'oil the wheels' in time-honoured ways. I view that kind of thing as actually what we'd expect BASC to be doing.

I think this is very different to BASC's involvement in 'working closely' with Police and HO: where their only tokens of exchange are our rights and freedoms; and the distribution of skill, experience and power in 'negotiation' so clearly favours the other side.

 

[pilgrimmick]

For information. Under the "benefits the group receives from sources outside parliament", BASC funds, (rather members) the Groups annual dinner and secretariat the former no doubt attended by the 'illuminati' and a significant number of BASC people. Last meeting of substance - Oct 2014. I wonder what or whom that date coincides with ? Certainly not the recent 'difficulties'. I wonder who shoots with whom ?

Sorry, 'APPGs don't publish lists anymore - change of Parliamentary rules'.



House of Commons - Register Of All-Party Groups as at 30 March 2015: Shooting and Conservation

Lord Dear is now President of BASC.


It would seem that despite being secretary for this group of Scottish Parliament , the influence did not extend to mentioning the ethics of bending the Guidance.

http://www.parliament.scot/msps/animal-welfare.aspx

Just looked at the groups who are members of the Scottish Animal welfare. 'Rabbits require rights'! That is going to be a well reasoned debate

 

[reloader54]

I can understand such feeling is abstract - but in the real world, an organisation like BASC must surely be expected to use our/its money if not overtly to buy political influence, then at the very least to 'oil the wheels' in time-honoured ways. I view that kind of thing as actually what we'd expect BASC to be doing.

I think this is very different to BASC's involvement in 'working closely' with Police and HO: where their only tokens of exchange are our rights and freedoms; and the distribution of skill, experience and power in 'negotiation' so clearly favours the other side.

To me it's Like witches clubbing together to buy Mathew Hopkins a fukcin' lighter.

 

[Lord V]

We are not going to burn political bridges, we will keep pushing the political avenues taking forward our political agenda in Westminster etc. But on a local level when we find any constabulary not conforming to the HO Guidance we will:
Contact the Ch. Constable and where ever possible arrange to meet to discuss why and try to resolve
Contact the Police & Crime Commissioner and see if they can assist us
Contact PP's in the area and ask them to lobby the above to comply with the HO guidance
Any and all of you could do the same of course, it would help

So no stomach for any legal challenge on anything then?

What happens when the PCC directly and clearly refers BASC to Arkell v Pressdram? Which given the fragrant flouting of HO guidance by various constabularies is basically happening already?

 

[kes]

My point about funding secretariats and dinners is that there is nothing wrong with it if it gives Value for Money - to give value for money the MP's have to be 'influenced by a not-for-profit organisation (RSPCA e.g.).
The 'purchasing of influence' comes under the heading of 'gifts inducements and rewards' which are breaches of public duty and are actionable within Westminster.
Is there value in doing it therefore - unlikely, so why do it ?
Because they like doing it and they think it gives them 'influence' when in reality a simple look at what has been achieved would show it isnt worth a candle. Still its a good Jolly as well as all the other 'influences purchased'.
I dont suppose BASC publishes expenses in support of shooting - I'm sure we would be looking at a lot more with little value, compared to a Judicial Review.

What would I do if I were Chairman of BASC - go for it, because I think it would never get to court and the HO and Chief Cons would know for the first time they are accountable for their actions. Wasnt it Mr Marsh who said - let me know if someone isnt following the Guidance ? The stakes have increased somewhat since then and he was a 'best pal' of BASC's. Has anyone seen the new mag and Mr Graffius's piece - reminds me of Shakespeare, " out, out, brief candle life's but a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.............full of sound and fury (a tiny bit anyway) - signifying - nothing.

I will stop posting for a week if anyone can give me the name of the play (and wants me to stop posting), employees of BASC are excluded.

 

[reloader54]

My point about funding secretariats and dinners is that there is nothing wrong with it if it gives Value for Money - to give value for money the MP's have to be 'influenced by a not-for-profit organisation (RSPCA e.g.).
The 'purchasing of influence' comes under the heading of 'gifts inducements and rewards' which are breaches of public duty and are actionable within Westminster.
Is there value in doing it therefore - unlikely, so why do it ?
Because they like doing it and they think it gives them 'influence' when in reality a simple look at what has been achieved would show it isnt worth a candle. Still its a good Jolly as well as all the other 'influences purchased'.
I dont suppose BASC publishes expenses in support of shooting - I'm sure we would be looking at a lot more with little value, compared to a Judicial Review.

What would I do if I were Chairman of BASC - go for it, because I think it would never get to court and the HO and Chief Cons would know for the first time they are accountable for their actions. Wasnt it Mr Marsh who said - let me know if someone isnt following the Guidance ? The stakes have increased somewhat since then and he was a 'best pal' of BASC's. Has anyone seen the new mag and Mr Graffius's piece - reminds me of Shakespeare, " out, out, brief candle life's but a poor player who struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more.............full of sound and fury (a tiny bit anyway) - signifying - nothing.

I will stop posting for a week if anyone can give me the name of the play (and wants me to stop posting), employees of BASC are excluded.

Macbeth, and please continue posting.


MACBETH     She should have died hereafter.
There would have been a time for such a word.
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing

 

[kes]

Macbeth, and please continue posting.


MACBETH     She should have died hereafter.
There would have been a time for such a word.
Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing

Super quick !! Thank you. I will continue to look for items of 'interest'.

 

[Odders]

I'm not sure why people are bashing BASC when the real culprits are the deceitful Tory government that always ********s rural folk with tales of "country sports are safe with us" at election time when in reality since the days of Robert Carr's Green Paper they have been every bit as bad as the loony lefties.

Have a look at which governments introduced each & every piece of restrictive firearms legislation. Conservative on all bar one occasion, all the way from 1921...

 

[Odders]

We are not going to burn political bridges, we will keep pushing the political avenues taking forward our political agenda in Westminster etc. But on a local level when we find any constabulary not conforming to the HO Guidance we will:
Contact the Ch. Constable and where ever possible arrange to meet to discuss why and try to resolve
Contact the Police & Crime Commissioner and see if they can assist us
Contact PP's in the area and ask them to lobby the above to comply with the HO guidance
Any and all of you could do the same of course, it would help

Yeah, right.
Remind me again of all the victories BASC, the NRA, CA & BSSF have won by "engaging with the political process".
Somewhere between jack-all & f***-all.

 

[Odders]

So no stomach for any legal challenge on anything then?

What happens when the PCC directly and clearly refers BASC to Arkell v Pressdram? Which given the fragrant flouting of HO guidance by various constabularies is basically happening already?

Nail meets hammer.

 

[JTO]

So no stomach for any legal challenge on anything then?

So much for BASC 'legal insurance' !!!!!!!!!!

 

[JTO]

Country Cover Club - Home

 

[rodp]

Country Cover Club - Home

Been looking at them, no promises, no bull, just simple cheap insurance . Just emailed them to see what they offer regarding road legal quad insurance.

 

[Lord V]

So much for BASC 'legal insurance' !!!!!!!!!!

Well if the local constabulary ignore the guidence on say 'assessing suitability' (there's more there than just the medical bits) or 'assessing good reason' or security BASCs solution is to have tea and biscuits with the CC and the PCC with no fear of legal action.

Not good enough, and certainly not what I am paying for. It also does seem to be a departure from what they have done in the past.

 

[JTO]

Only half of patients can see the same GP each time | Daily Mail Online

 

[cjm1066]

BASC are far from perfect, I have been a member for nearly 40 years, a few lapses when their action/inaction irritated. However its gratifying that so many fellow SD members have taken the time to comment on this thread.

I hope they will be even more energetic when the time comes to lobby MPs and others on these ill judged proposals, it is them that we need to influence, not fellow SD members, were we are only preaching to the converted.

 

[Greymaster]

BASC are far from perfect, I have been a member for nearly 40 years, a few lapses when their action/inaction irritated. However its gratifying that so many fellow SD members have taken the time to comment on this thread.

I hope they will be even more energetic when the time comes to lobby MPs and others on these ill judged proposals, it is them that we need to influence, not fellow SD members, were we are only preaching to the converted.

As stated elsewhere, I am a BASC member. I have been in a dialogue with the Hants PCC for the last 18 months. Hants police have recently complied with my FOI request re timescales for grants and renewals.

 

[kes]

Any further developments from the BASC 'initiative'?
No response yet from noticeably unwilling and disinterested politicians. Has anyone heard anything since the disappointing response to the initial advice on 'Judicial Review' ?
I dont for a minute suppose anything further towards legal action by BASC has occurred or been reported?
What a truly pathetic organisation. CA the same.
Still nothing on ther BSSC site. BASC are now busy issuing advice to Merseyside firearms holders about unannounced visits, after having previously virtually accepted them - death by a thousand cuts.
Will they never challenge anything, including Merseyside now for acting outside due process and Guidance and the Law .? They seem satisfied by writing hyped-up rubbish.

 

[finnbear270]

 

[finnbear270]

Favourite crop for the countryside of today .............. LONG GRASS! .. So much stuff gets kicked into it.