Basc voluntary lead ban
- Thread starter Roestalker39
- Start date
I doubt that most consumers consider how an animal is despatched prior to its arrival in the cling-film packaging in their supermarket.
But I do know that whenever game bird marketers gain some ground, Avery, Packham or waronwildlife throw enough shade to cause supermarket buyers and their legal teams to reconsider:
Roestalker39
Well-Known Member
Exactly ! After lead it will something else and something else after that .... I’ve said it before but capitulation is not the answer
CarlW
Well-Known Member
No, I did not. I said, do not try to impose your swearing off of lead on the rest of us. A threat requires an 'or else'. There was no 'for else'. Now stop being an over-sensitive little girl and continue your campaign.
Disingenuous ? It does however say 'welcome' so its got to be BASC.
https://basc.org.uk/countryside-org...nt-to-the-future-of-game-shooting-in-the-uk/#
Countryside organisations welcome cartridge manufacturers commitment to the future of game shooting in the UK
Shame it isn't 'real', in the sense of after the fact - this is clearly before the fact.
https://basc.org.uk/countryside-org...nt-to-the-future-of-game-shooting-in-the-uk/#
Countryside organisations welcome cartridge manufacturers commitment to the future of game shooting in the UK
- BASCadmin
- 28th February 2020
- Latest news / Lead Shot
Shame it isn't 'real', in the sense of after the fact - this is clearly before the fact.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
,
Gentlemen, you are two of the most considered and esteemed voices on this forum. Watching you dissent is like seeing your parents fight.
It is a measure of the gravity and polarising nature of this topic that it can divide us exactly when we need unity. Could we not come round to a consensus that acknowledges the following concurrent truths:
- BASC et al have jumped the gun and failed us all
- Public perception that lead-in-food-at-any-level-is-bad is a co-factor in declining game sales
- Kowtowing/appeasing antis gains nothing as they are relentless in their desire to eliminate all hunting
- There is a growing body of data that should encourage us, as those who cherish the ecology, to find suitable lead shot alternatives as soon as they are viable
I will shut my gob, Vince. You are right to intervene.
Kind regards,
Carl
reloader54
Well-Known Member
You're all jumbling up several issues, I think.
Lead is one. If taken out of the context of "death by a thousand cuts", or "another step on the road to banning shooting" etc etc, then removal of lead from the countryside and the food chain is a reasonable step to take, which we as individuals shouldn't be entirely averse to - after all, we do pride ourselves on our conservation work, our custodianship of the countryside, the healthy nature of the food we produce, etc etc. Having said that, I personally see plastic wads as a bigger problem and would gladly see them consigned to history.
BASC is another. Regardless of the fact that it's lead that's sparked this off, BASC appears to have disregarded its own policy ("no science = no change" in this case) Members supported that policy, and should have been consulted, otherwise the association's actions do not represent members opinions.
BASC also appears to have been dishonest, in so far as it managed to convince other associations that the gun / ammunition trade and manufacturers had been consulted, when it now transpires that they hadn't.
Other organisations: What was their stance on lead before this episode? Have they also betrayed their members?
So, in my opinion, BASC (and other organisations) should be taken to task over their honesty and commitment to their members as a separate issue to the lead issue. Lead just happens to be the catalyst in this case, but would they have behaved any differently over other issues (such as trophy hunting)?
Lead is one. If taken out of the context of "death by a thousand cuts", or "another step on the road to banning shooting" etc etc, then removal of lead from the countryside and the food chain is a reasonable step to take, which we as individuals shouldn't be entirely averse to - after all, we do pride ourselves on our conservation work, our custodianship of the countryside, the healthy nature of the food we produce, etc etc. Having said that, I personally see plastic wads as a bigger problem and would gladly see them consigned to history.
BASC is another. Regardless of the fact that it's lead that's sparked this off, BASC appears to have disregarded its own policy ("no science = no change" in this case) Members supported that policy, and should have been consulted, otherwise the association's actions do not represent members opinions.
BASC also appears to have been dishonest, in so far as it managed to convince other associations that the gun / ammunition trade and manufacturers had been consulted, when it now transpires that they hadn't.
Other organisations: What was their stance on lead before this episode? Have they also betrayed their members?
So, in my opinion, BASC (and other organisations) should be taken to task over their honesty and commitment to their members as a separate issue to the lead issue. Lead just happens to be the catalyst in this case, but would they have behaved any differently over other issues (such as trophy hunting)?
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, we can't isolate the issues with such purity, Tim. Everything has a context, and lead's context is the male fides of those seeking its exclusion.
Incidentally, like you, I also abhor plastic wads and decline to use them (or allow others to use them on my property). However, I wouldn't seek their removal from our sport until such time as my fellow shooters who do use them (often those using steel shot) tell me that they are ready to let them go.
Kind regards,
Carl
I think we need to try to isolate the issues. I can't see any other way of getting to the heart of the matter.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
In the gun that I shoot to have the makers replace the barrels would cost me, from them, £10,000 to £20,000. As to sleeve them would reduce its market value by half or greater. So no I do not intend to take the risk (which no matter how small it is does exist) of knackering them either by bulging or scoring by using steel shot.
The TGS video is BS surely? For with all that money spent on driven days at Catton Hall what is the risk that a Tory Government with a majority of eighty will enact legislation proposed by an EU that we left in January and that Johnson says he won't "align" with?
The TGS video is BS surely? For with all that money spent on driven days at Catton Hall what is the risk that a Tory Government with a majority of eighty will enact legislation proposed by an EU that we left in January and that Johnson says he won't "align" with?
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That's true. But we're all muddying it up by bothering about BASC and lead, going around in circles while the CP's of this world have probably already moved on to planning their next attack.
Like I said, stop thinking about the lead issue for a minute, and consider whether the orgs would have behaved any differently to any other similar issue. Sadly, I think that they might all have rolled over just the same in the face of any other threat. In which case, we need to be tackling the behaviour of our representative organisations separately from our discussions about the impact of a potential ban on lead ammunition, and not keep getting side tracked by whatever the current outrage happens to be.
Big_Sparky
Well-Known Member
If any of this relies on Mr Johnson keeping his word, well, to quote a much older comment in this thread “we’re all doomed”
I agree, but lead is now superseding medicals as the focus of 'unrest' . Think about medicals again - no reason given except 'public safety. So what is the reason for the retreat (or collapse) on lead ? it cant truly be 'public safety because most dont eat game and it isnt harmful according to DEFRA, so why run away ?
The whole point of comments about lead et al is to galvanise the majority of 'members for insurance' to understand that those who represent us clearly dont. Get to that point, withdraw membership and we regain a whip hand so long lost to most shooters.
Make no mistake, this move is without merit and should therefore be without support - everyone should benefit from their £80 back and buy cheaper insurance and invest the rest in their own shooting and conservation projects.
Why continue to fund this overweening arrogance ?
Lets move on, I agree, but only after BASC et al have learned a corrective membership lesson they wont forget.
All BASC et al members should sign up to an EGM for BASC et al etc. explain your positions and resign en masse.
Thats what the lead discussion is all about - turning this ship around.
The whole point of comments about lead et al is to galvanise the majority of 'members for insurance' to understand that those who represent us clearly dont. Get to that point, withdraw membership and we regain a whip hand so long lost to most shooters.
Make no mistake, this move is without merit and should therefore be without support - everyone should benefit from their £80 back and buy cheaper insurance and invest the rest in their own shooting and conservation projects.
Why continue to fund this overweening arrogance ?
Lets move on, I agree, but only after BASC et al have learned a corrective membership lesson they wont forget.
All BASC et al members should sign up to an EGM for BASC et al etc. explain your positions and resign en masse.
Thats what the lead discussion is all about - turning this ship around.
Big_Sparky
Well-Known Member
From watching that, several things spring to mind.....
1. They really, really don’t give a toss about any of us that are part of a small shoot/DIY syndicate nor anyone who isn’t in a position to buy whatever is required to continue in enjoying shooting!
2. I assume it’s only a matter of time until the PSC1 and PSC2 becomes a “requirement” - that’s Pheasant Shooting Certificate for those at the back.....
3. The PMC Parts 1-3 and the GBAMQ (Game Bird Advanced Management Qualification obviously
will be along shortly afterwards4. And they either can drink really hot tea very quickly or still like quite cool tea 40 minutes later......
reloader54
Well-Known Member
If lead in game and the environment is a problem, and there is a suggested large market for game to eat, how much longer do you think shooting them will be an accepted way of killing, easier to rear them like chickens, process them like chickens, market them like chickens, supermarkets happy, housewife treats it like anything else with no idea of the miserable life its had, no shot lead or steel, no environmental damage.
