Basc voluntary lead ban

No satisfaction to be honest, I had to check the way I was spelling was correct.

It is just hugely frustrating as this will effect many shooters in many ways. In all honesty I have no issues with the lead shot ban, it won’t massively effect me as I have steel proofed guns and don’t stretch ranges but I understand it will impact others massively.

Rifle bullets on the other hand, or projectiles as I include air rifle pellets, will have a big impact on me and the shooting I do. So I will support the game shooters as I responded on trophy hunting and the proposed 50 cal and lever release ban, to support other shooters.

Shooting is not that big an industry in the UK not enough for R&D by a lot of companies into suitable lead free alternatives.

And don’t be fooled, when shooting is banned fishing will be next and ferreting will follow, which will be a shame as I’ve just got ferrets again for the first time in a few years.

lol wise move!

I to responded on trophy hunting, I don’t post without thinking although to some it probably appears that I do, when it effects air rifles it will effect me greatly as I’ve been an avid air gun shooter for the last 18 years as well as shot gun and more recently centre fire for deer and fox. It is frustrating but what we do need to do is stand together instead of in bickering -which I am just as much to blame for as others.

My gripe was more with what appeared to me whinging about all the orgs. Anyway that’s enough of that.

Have you-I used to love ferreting as a boy and got my own 6 years ago I wouldn’t be without them now, a great day outs almost guaranteed with the ferreting crew 2 jills I hob and 1 vasectomised hob I’ve had some good days this season!:thumb:
 
lol wise move!

I to responded on trophy hunting, I don’t post without thinking although to some it probably appears that I do, when it effects air rifles it will effect me greatly as I’ve been an avid air gun shooter for the last 18 years as well as shot gun and more recently centre fire for deer and fox. It is frustrating but what we do need to do is stand together instead of in bickering -which I am just as much to blame for as others.

My gripe was more with what appeared to me whinging about all the orgs. Anyway that’s enough of that.

Have you-I used to love ferreting as a boy and got my own 6 years ago I wouldn’t be without them now, a great day outs almost guaranteed with the ferreting crew 2 jills I hob and 1 vasectomised hob I’ve had some good days this season!:thumb:
I got my first about 8 years ago, great fun, had 2 hobs and 3 jills that my wife thinks I let escape on our wedding day but I swear they were stolen due to the way the hutch was left. Got 2 hobs off a friend last autumn, now the kids are old enough to go out and enjoy it (4&6). Had them out with my best mate and his family of similar age last week, just a few small warrens to ease them in, brilliant day! I almost prefer ferreting to shooting to be honest!
Let’s just hope I’m being a pessimist but a lot was said along the lines of they’ll not come after lead for pheasants and partridge when lead was banned for wildfowling and here we are now.
But you’re right bickering doesn’t help, I am just hugely frustrated and feel betrayed to be honest, but venting at the wrong people :doh:
 
I tried shooting pigeons with steel shot once and after firing about 10 cartridges I could see that it was not as effective as lead, so I am back to Eley 6.5 shot pigeon specials.
I use Bismuth for ducks and I like using those cartridges despite their price, as I only shoot maybe a box or two of these each year. For the amount of game birds I shoot in a season I reckon I could afford to use bismuth for that too if I had to.

If a lot more people bought bismuth to use for game, would it be more economical to produce and would the price come down? Or is it difficult to get hold of the raw material and therefore supply would run out/price go up?

basically I support the idea that we should stop using plastic wads in shotgun cartridges and I would be ok with a gradually introduced disincentive for using lead ammo. Definitely not happy with this all of a sudden urgent “BAN” on stuff we’ve been doing for a long time though.
 
I got my first about 8 years ago, great fun, had 2 hobs and 3 jills that my wife thinks I let escape on our wedding day but I swear they were stolen due to the way the hutch was left. Got 2 hobs off a friend last autumn, now the kids are old enough to go out and enjoy it (4&6). Had them out with my best mate and his family of similar age last week, just a few small warrens to ease them in, brilliant day! I almost prefer ferreting to shooting to be honest!
Let’s just hope I’m being a pessimist but a lot was said along the lines of they’ll not come after lead for pheasants and partridge when lead was banned for wildfowling and here we are now.
But you’re right bickering doesn’t help, I am just hugely frustrated and feel betrayed to be honest, but venting at the wrong people :doh:

Ah stolen on your wedding day! that’s terrible! There is a lot of scum bags about unfortunately. I can’t wait to get out with my girls, I have 3 girls under 4 and a very accommodating wife so I’m fortunate I get out quite a bit when not working. We had a great day just after Christmas which resulted in 14 rabbits 9 of which was from a long netted pond hole! The sight of me running round in circles in wax leggings and jacket appeased my mates !

fingers crossed somebody with some gumption will get into the inner circle of BASC or another big org soon - I won’t hold my breath though !

yes I know what you mean! I don’t mind arguing about crap non related to fieldsports but we shouldnt be arguing about field sports!
 
What a self defeating attitude, surely the drive to eat British game begins at the shoot table.

Exactly, if shots don't do it themselves then who else will?
Big commercial shooting does have a lot to answer for ( speaking as someone who does Adair bit off picking up on them) and really the industry has grown far to quickly.

There is a lot of talk about positive PR and even the toxicity of lead, but in reality it's all pretty much all bull.
The rabid antis don't care! It is that simple. Any positive PR is soon forgotten. It's only taken a couple off decades to stop the completely false releasing grouse headline every 12 aug.
We have to be fighting and defending everything.

This has completely opened the floodgates quite needlessly and not been fully thought about at all ( esp in rifle and air guns) which will have wide spread implications. This will spread throughout all aspects off shooting relatively quickly now

Yes lead is toxic but is more toxic in some forms than other, and in its solid state is as less toxic as it can be and is pretty harmless.
As has been said previously by others they're has never ever been a death directly due to lead shot ingestion ( unlike smoking, drinking, driving, fast food and processed food amount hundreds of other things which are acceptable but have clear scientific proof of there negative effects )
Even cultures with subsistence hunting while lead levels were higher they were no where near dangerous levels

My old house had a lead water supply pipe, house sat empty for 6 -8 months, tap was never run, I took a sample off tap water to send away as if over a certain concentration u either got a grant or done for nothing replacing to the main ( about 30 ish m). The reading hardly registered and nowhere near grant levels.
And soluble lead is in 1 off its more dangerous forms.

Supermarkets are a white elephant and will never stock or sell much game,too much potential negative PR.they will drop it as soon as the 1st protest comes

I also spent 1 summer digging up silt on shooting ponds for my dissertation into lead shot, never found a pellet and these ponds have been shot for decades and decades and quite decent numbers of duck.

With wildfowl there are real scientific/documented issues with wildfowl ingesting lead pellets/shot, as there feeding in shallows and thinking the shot is the seed there feeding on.
From memory ( and it was a while ago now :old:) there was a study off magpie geese in OZ with very high mortality rates as their primary feed source was the same size as the shot u used to shoot them.
 
I'm out shopping at all those gunships selling for bismuth, or steel, cartridges for my Webley 9mm and .22RF bolt action garden guns. As everyone knows the voluntary ban on lead shot for rat control using Webley bolt action No3 and .22RF garden guns makes total sense. Yeah...right!
 
We are not just being asked to use non toxic shot, which is not to much of a problem for 12gauge we are being asked to use it in only bio degradable wads that is much more of a problem and one the industry has been struggling with for many years.
Currently very few non toxic cartridges are on sale with that combination and even in steel are much more expensive and again none in gauges like .410 and 28gauge, 16gauge.

The extra cost may be acceptable to game shooters but they are saying all live quarry so that includes pigeons, etc.

Lots of development needed in the wads to achieve their goal for all, they say the manufactures will rise to the challenge but in reality this island is a tiny part of the global shooting market and the manufactures may not rush to solve the problem in five years that has so far after many years only resulted in three expensive biodegradable wad types.

They have also made it much easier for a complete ban on all lead shot and lead ammunition to be legally implemented, which has always been on the cards but previous resisted by the shooting organisations.
 
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In 48 years of shooting I have never known things get so bad. I have longed for all the organisations to get together and put up a fight. Unbeknown they have but stabbed us all in the back.
Social media has predicted this for weeks and it's been true. Our orgs represent us the shooting community but there has been no referendum or consultation just a joint statement from a few people who should know better. It stinks.
 
A very interesting excerpt from the papers and one of the commentators.

Brexit activist Tom Harwood dismantled claims a trade deal with the US could bring down British food standard if products like chlorinated chicken are allowed into the country. Remainers have long claimed striking trade deal with countries lacking strong agri-food standards could compromise the quality of UK foods and be harmful to people. But Mr Harwood was quick to dismiss major concerns as he pointed out scientists from the European Union’s own European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) claimed the consumption of food treated with chlorine would not be harmful.

The EU’s own scientists have said there is no problem with washing chicken with chlorine. And yet there is a political argument because of ideological campaigners.

“EU member states used to wash chicken in chlorine and other disinfectants to get rid of potentially harmful bacteria but the practice was banned in 1997 over food safety concerns.

“It’s not about the science and the British Government said, just last week, trade will be governed by science, not by activists.”

Now I wonder why the last sentence should not apply to not just our trade deal but how the government deals with the lead or any other issue in our activities, seems like double standards to me and why our shooting organisations are not holding the government to account on this I do not know.
 
I tried shooting pigeons with steel shot once and after firing about 10 cartridges I could see that it was not as effective as lead, so I am back to Eley 6.5 shot pigeon specials.
I use Bismuth for ducks and I like using those cartridges despite their price, as I only shoot maybe a box or two of these each year. For the amount of game birds I shoot in a season I reckon I could afford to use bismuth for that too if I had to.

If a lot more people bought bismuth to use for game, would it be more economical to produce and would the price come down? Or is it difficult to get hold of the raw material and therefore supply would run out/price go up?

basically I support the idea that we should stop using plastic wads in shotgun cartridges and I would be ok with a gradually introduced disincentive for using lead ammo. Definitely not happy with this all of a sudden urgent “BAN” on stuff we’ve been doing for a long time though.

Guess where bismuth comes from.

It's mostly a byproduct of lead ore processing...

Oh & it's also toxic.
Ingestion: POISON. May cause nausea, loss of appetite and weight, malaise, albuminuria, diarrhea, skin reactions, stomatitis, headache, fever, sleeplessness, depression, rheumatic pain and a black line may form on gums in the mouth due to deposition of bismuth sulphide.
 
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