BBC at its finest....

[Freeforester]

So getting a leccy car isn't the answer or required.
Thanks

EV’s are a waste of valuable resources we cannot readily recycle.



Norway’s eager adoption of EV’s was heavily influenced by subsidies for the purchase of such vehicles. Now they’re banned from the ferries used to cross many fjords, such is the potential risk to life from fire from them.

 

[MilesW]

Norway’s eager adoption of EV’s was heavily influenced by subsidies for the purchase of such vehicles. Now they’re banned from the ferries used to cross many fjords, such is the potential risk to life from fire from them.

And the irony is those subsidies were made possible by the profits from the extraction and sale of fossil fuels.

 

[Dazb1967]

And the irony is those subsidies were made possible by the profits from the extraction and sale of fossil fuels.

A lot of that profit come from the UK as Norway supply the UK with nearly half our natural gas, We can't extract it but we prefer to buy it from the country who extract it from the same sea we have access too.

 

[Demetrius]

That makes our administration look as barmy as trumps......

D.

 

[TringSaint]

Problem being is it has no basis in reality whatsoever.

No scientific paper exists which demonstrates the purported/claimed link between man-made carbon dioxide emissions (comprising 5% of the total global CO2 budget, the remaining 95% being of entirely natural origin) and climate warming - carbon dioxide levels fluctuate rather dramatically from time of the day and seasons as the video presentation below discusses




Carbon dioxide as a whole constitutes a mere 5% fraction of the so-called (essential, if mis-named) ‘greenhouse’ effect, with the overwhelming 95% of the effect (which just happens to keep the planet some 32°Celsius warmer than would otherwise be the case) provided by water vapour in the atmosphere.

The ENTIRE MOTIVATION for the pursuit of Net Zero is built upon the WHOLLY FALSE ‘belief’ - as opposed to the SCIENTIFIC FACTS - that carbon dioxide - and specifically the mere 5% portion of which is of man-made in origin - somehow represents an existential danger to humankind and climate stability — it CATEGORICALLY does NOT.


Nor is the ‘greenhouse effect of the ESSENTIAL TO LIFE gas linear, but logarithmic: the effect of doubling today’s ’average level’ ( see above video) to 900ppm would be negligible on temperatures. Cyclical temperature rises on Earth do cause subsequent increased carbon dioxide levels, but carbon dioxide, either man made or natural, is NOT THE CAUSE of temperature increases, that is due to cyclical variation of Solar energy output, something we cannot control, much less tax.

Politicians and media sources assisting the agenda are simply lying, in order to tax everyone, and relying on pseudoscience - a whole industry and counterproductive national energy policy is being built on this complete nonsense ideology, which will shortly expose UK plc to energy shortages, never mind some of the world’s most expensive electricity prices - all completely NEEDLESSLY.

Remember too, the cold kills TEN TIMES more people than warmth does.

Enjoy the sunny days while they last, as when the lights go out due to this present madness, it won’t be so enjoyable. As the American man of letters Henry Brooks Adams observed, “Practical politics consists in ignoring facts”…

Why not forget the politics for one minute and use YOUR eyes.

Look at your local area. Look at how dry everything is. Speak with farmers about new diseases that are hitting our shores (bluetongue is back again!!), and horticulturalists and aboriculturalists about what is happening to our native plants and trees. Anyone can see that the UK’s climate has changed massively in the last 20 years, let alone 100.

Evolution takes millennia, so if we are now losing plants and animals that have been here since before humans were, then that is down to something that is causing change to happen much faster than the ecology can handle. This world has managed to adapt for around 5 billion years, but now it can’t. Why is that??

You and I have debated this before and your stock response is to post loads of completely discredited ‘scientific studies’ which happen to support your view that this is all natural. But you can never explain what is causing this if it’s not us.
The solar radiation has not changed, we aren’t seeing an uptick in volcanic activity and there is no other source of heat so great as to raise sea temperatures the way that they are rising.

So, when you exhaust every other excuse, you have to come back to what we are doing. Unless you can explain to me how the amount of energy trapped within our atmosphere is going up despite the external inputs remaining the same.

 

[Freeforester]

“You and I have debated this before and your stock response is to post loads of completely discredited ‘scientific studies’ which happen to support your view that this is all natural. But you can never explain what is causing this if it’s not us.
The solar radiation has not changed, we aren’t seeing an uptick in volcanic activity and there is no other source of heat so great as to raise sea temperatures the way that they are rising”. — The gospel, according to Tringy…

You seem to be confusing summer weather with climate. The Omega shaped weather pattern settled currently over Europe will shift in time.
A pleasant summer doesn’t make for a panic for everyone.

You seek to cast doubt on proven scientific observation, but offer nothing yourself. You seem to imagine that carbon dioxide increases causes climate change, but scientific observation has shown that carbon dioxide levels lag behind temperature changes.

You suggest that solar radiation has not changed, but offer nothing by way of evidence to support your assertion; there is plenty of evidence both in the present time and in the past that you are mistaken, eg the Roman era warm period, when grapes grew in Scotland, and trees grew at far higher elevations than present (you could use your eyes for this one, the peat hags of Scotland contain countless examples of warmer times than today):


Your unwillingness to educate yourself as to where and how the extra solar radiation influences the climate ( hint: more than three quarters of the surface of the planet are indeed oceans, which have the ability to absorb this energy, there are several papers describing the process, which you really ought to familiarise yourself with) is your apparent blind spot. The various mini ice ages recorded down through time also give the lie to your frankly daft claims about the Sun never changing its output. Time you did some more reading!

Ideology and muddled assertions based on correlation are how you are in such a lather about these processes, your unwillingness to educate yourself properly on the matter is telling.

Meantime, the Southern hemisphere is having cold record temperatures recorded across both Antarctica and several South American countries, and the Australian alps and New Zealand’s ski areas are reporting heavier than the recent ‘normal’ falls of snow, just as Eastern Russia and Japan recorded record snowfalls during the past winter - even the Arctic ice isn’t melting but rather gaining this year - you are completely wrong about solar irradiance being constant and never changing, history demonstrates this so ably that there is nothing I can personally add to usefully explain the varying outputs of the sun over time; perhaps you can explain how carbon dioxide can both heat the planet and cool it so, all at the same time…

31K views · 1.8K reactions | Arctic Ice Stability Explained | Electroverse

 

[TringSaint]

“You and I have debated this before and your stock response is to post loads of completely discredited ‘scientific studies’ which happen to support your view that this is all natural. But you can never explain what is causing this if it’s not us.
The solar radiation has not changed, we aren’t seeing an uptick in volcanic activity and there is no other source of heat so great as to raise sea temperatures the way that they are rising”. — The gospel, according to Tringy…

You seem to be confusing summer weather with climate. The Omega shaped weather pattern settled currently over Europe will shift in time.
A pleasant summer doesn’t make for a panic for everyone.

You seek to cast doubt on proven scientific observation, but offer nothing yourself. You seem to imagine that carbon dioxide increases causes climate change, but scientific observation has shown that carbon dioxide levels lag behind temperature changes.

You suggest that solar radiation has not changed, but offer nothing by way of evidence to support your assertion; there is plenty of evidence both in the present time and in the past that you are mistaken, eg the Roman era warm period, when grapes grew in Scotland, and trees grew at far higher elevations than present (you could use your eyes for this one, the peat hags of Scotland contain countless examples of warmer times than today):
View attachment 483265

Your unwillingness to educate yourself as to where and how the extra solar radiation influences the climate ( hint: more than three quarters of the surface of the planet are indeed oceans, which have the ability to absorb this energy, there are several papers describing the process, which you really ought to familiarise yourself with) is your apparent blind spot. The various mini ice ages recorded down through time also give the lie to your frankly daft claims about the Sun never changing its output. Time you did some more reading!

Ideology and muddled assertions based on correlation are how you are in such a lather about these processes, your unwillingness to educate yourself properly on the matter is telling.

Meantime, the Southern hemisphere is having cold record temperatures recorded across both Antarctica and several South American countries, and the Australian alps and Nee Zealand’s ski areas are reporting heavier than the recent ‘normal’ falls of snow, just as Eastern Russia and Japan recorded record snowfalls during the past winter - even the Arctic ice isn’t melting g. It gaining this year - you are completely wrong about solar irradiance being constant and never changing, history demonstrates this so ably that there is nothing I can personally add to usefully explain the varying outputs of the sun over time; perhaps you can explain how carbon dioxide can both heat the planet and cool it so, all at the same time…

31K views · 1.8K reactions | Arctic Ice Stability Explained | Electroverse


View attachment 483274
View attachment 483277

So you really think this is ‘normal’ summer weather?

Look at the long term data for rainfall and then compare it with last year and this year.
There is a trend if you care to spot it (I will give you a clue - the numbers now are much less than before)

That is not just ‘summer’. That is a rapid shift in climate, and none of your fake studies can explain it.

What I don’t get is why you don’t want to accept that humans are the cause? Why does it vex you so to have to accept that your behaviour along with mine and 8 billion others is damaging our planet? Is it inconvenient that if you do accept it then you may have to change what you do?

Personally, I don’t want to leave my kids or grandchildren if I ever have any a world that is a total mess. Why should I ignore what is happening, just because it might cost me a bit more to do things a different way?

Would you care if all the deer died of some awful disease because our climate enabled it to thrive? There must be a point there enough is enough, even for you. So what would that look like?

 

[TringSaint]

Laugh all you want freeforester, but if that is the sum total of your argument then I guess it all makes sense as to why you think that the rapidly changing climate is nothing to do with the 8 billion humans who are consuming the planet’s resources at an alarming rate!

Yup, nothing to see here! It’s all down to space dust and blackrock and the WEF and bill gates, etc.

 

[timbrayford]

Why not forget the politics for one minute and use YOUR eyes.

Look at your local area. Look at how dry everything is. Speak with farmers about new diseases that are hitting our shores (bluetongue is back again!!), and horticulturalists and aboriculturalists about what is happening to our native plants and trees. Anyone can see that the UK’s climate has changed massively in the last 20 years, let alone 100.

Evolution takes millennia, so if we are now losing plants and animals that have been here since before humans were, then that is down to something that is causing change to happen much faster than the ecology can handle. This world has managed to adapt for around 5 billion years, but now it can’t. Why is that??

You and I have debated this before and your stock response is to post loads of completely discredited ‘scientific studies’ which happen to support your view that this is all natural. But you can never explain what is causing this if it’s not us.
The solar radiation has not changed, we aren’t seeing an uptick in volcanic activity and there is no other source of heat so great as to raise sea temperatures the way that they are rising.

So, when you exhaust every other excuse, you have to come back to what we are doing. Unless you can explain to me how the amount of energy trapped within our atmosphere is going up despite the external inputs remaining the same.

International trade is responsible for breaches of bio-security, a slight warming is not massive, especially if you look at average temperatures scientifically on the Kelvin scale which illustrates how remarkable stable things are.
Constructing urban heat islands and permitting carbon based aviation fuels appears to be a selective blind spot with middle class eco-loonies anyway, and as I alluded to before, I welcome a warming climate whatever the cause.

 

[rollotomassi]

Laugh all you want freeforester, but if that is the sum total of your argument then I guess it all makes sense as to why you think that the rapidly changing climate is nothing to do with the 8 billion humans who are consuming the planet’s resources at an alarming rate!

Yup, nothing to see here! It’s all down to space dust and blackrock and the WEF and bill gates, etc.

The artificial expansion of populations [that were already in precarious situations] beyond their self sustaining capacity is one the greatest misuse of resources in history.

Band Aid and Ethiopia good example. Geldof got very rich off the increased profile and unquestionable moral stature he obtained.

Meanwhile Ethiopia has grown from 38 million then in 1980s to...

138 million! 100 million surplus. By comparison uk added 15 million [maj via net migration]

The are still at risk of famine via drought though better prepared.

 

[TringSaint]

The artificial expansion of populations [that were already in precarious situations] beyond their self sustaining capacity is one the greatest misuse of resources in history.

Band Aid and Ethiopia good example. Geldof got very rich off the increased profile and unquestionable moral stature he obtained.

Meanwhile Ethiopia has grown from 38 million then in 1980s to...

138 million! 100 million surplus. By comparison uk added 15 million [maj via net migration]

The are still at risk of famine via drought though better prepared.

Yes, I agree.
The global population has doubled since ww2, and that is a really short doubling period.
One crop failure in Asia and we have a major global challenge to solve and given that the last time we tried to resolve such an issue, the number of people involved was around 4 million, and that was a challenge.
If it’s 40 or 400 million (currently 700 million are living in famine conditions in India alone) then there is very little that can be done to overcome it.

 

[TringSaint]

International trade is responsible for breaches of bio-security, a slight warming is not massive, especially if you look at average temperatures scientifically on the Kelvin scale which illustrates how remarkable stable things are.
Constructing urban heat islands and permitting carbon based aviation fuels appears to be a selective blind spot with middle class eco-loonies anyway, and as I alluded to before, I welcome a warming climate whatever the cause.

The viruses that are hitting our livestock are nothing to do with international trade. Both bluetongue and schmallenberg are both mosquito borne viruses and these have flown over from continental Europe, aided by a more suitable climate over here.

A warming climate will soon have other delights such as tiger mosquitoes and dengue over here, as they are already in France. So be careful what you wish for!

 

[tackb]

“You and I have debated this before and your stock response is to post loads of completely discredited ‘scientific studies’ which happen to support your view that this is all natural. But you can never explain what is causing this if it’s not us.
The solar radiation has not changed, we aren’t seeing an uptick in volcanic activity and there is no other source of heat so great as to raise sea temperatures the way that they are rising”. — The gospel, according to Tringy…

You seem to be confusing summer weather with climate. The Omega shaped weather pattern settled currently over Europe will shift in time.
A pleasant summer doesn’t make for a panic for everyone.

You seek to cast doubt on proven scientific observation, but offer nothing yourself. You seem to imagine that carbon dioxide increases causes climate change, but scientific observation has shown that carbon dioxide levels lag behind temperature changes.

You suggest that solar radiation has not changed, but offer nothing by way of evidence to support your assertion; there is plenty of evidence both in the present time and in the past that you are mistaken, eg the Roman era warm period, when grapes grew in Scotland, and trees grew at far higher elevations than present (you could use your eyes for this one, the peat hags of Scotland contain countless examples of warmer times than today):
View attachment 483265

Your unwillingness to educate yourself as to where and how the extra solar radiation influences the climate ( hint: more than three quarters of the surface of the planet are indeed oceans, which have the ability to absorb this energy, there are several papers describing the process, which you really ought to familiarise yourself with) is your apparent blind spot. The various mini ice ages recorded down through time also give the lie to your frankly daft claims about the Sun never changing its output. Time you did some more reading!

Ideology and muddled assertions based on correlation are how you are in such a lather about these processes, your unwillingness to educate yourself properly on the matter is telling.

Meantime, the Southern hemisphere is having cold record temperatures recorded across both Antarctica and several South American countries, and the Australian alps and New Zealand’s ski areas are reporting heavier than the recent ‘normal’ falls of snow, just as Eastern Russia and Japan recorded record snowfalls during the past winter - even the Arctic ice isn’t melting but rather gaining this year - you are completely wrong about solar irradiance being constant and never changing, history demonstrates this so ably that there is nothing I can personally add to usefully explain the varying outputs of the sun over time; perhaps you can explain how carbon dioxide can both heat the planet and cool it so, all at the same time…

31K views · 1.8K reactions | Arctic Ice Stability Explained | Electroverse


View attachment 483274
View attachment 483277

i wouldn't waste your time matey , the net zero zealots will not change !

 

[TringSaint]

i wouldn't waste your time matey , the net zero zealots will not change !

Who said I was in agreement with net zero.
If you read what I wrote you will clearly see that I call it out as being unachievable.

Just saying!

 

[timbrayford]

The viruses that are hitting our livestock are nothing to do with international trade. Both bluetongue and schmallenberg are both mosquito borne viruses and these have flown over from continental Europe, aided by a more suitable climate over here.

A warming climate will soon have other delights such as tiger mosquitoes and dengue over here, as they are already in France. So be careful what you wish for!

Blue tongue first came into the UK via cattle imports from the South of France. Dutch elm on imports, Japanese larch disease too. African swine fever if it gets here will be on imports, just like the 1980s foot and mouth disease courtesy of the old Townsend Thoresen Ferry sailing within a mile or so off Pigeon Coo pig farm after its departure from Normandy. I suppose COVID came here on the wind too without any kind of airline travel assistance?

 

[tackb]

Who said I was in agreement with net zero.
If you read what I wrote you will clearly see that I call it out as being unachievable.

Just saying!

i stopped reading what you write a long time ago

 

[Scarpa]

I still call most of the political shenanigans BS, it's one of the things that leads to many people becoming sceptics of the whole climate change issue. The scientific research is extremely convincing, we still don't know much about many aspects but what we are seeing is repeatable evidence that it is happening and that the ramifications for humans will likely be extreme. My background is in science, hons degree, taught part of masters in environmental biology but then changed to 7 years in research. I also worked for the NHS and collated evidence based studies from around the world for background to the Welsh parliament guidance document for taking primary health care into the 21st century. I still read widely across a range of scientific disciplines, but have a mistrust of most social media posts unless the study is referenced and has been peer reviewed.

 

[Demetrius]

Only time will tell who's right, not the SD experts.......I sincerely hope it's the climate change sceptics, otherwise the kids are never going to have the fun we had......

D.

 

[TringSaint]

Blue tongue first came into the UK via cattle imports from the South of France. Dutch elm on imports, Japanese larch disease too. African swine fever if it gets here will be on imports, just like the 1980s foot and mouth disease courtesy of the old Townsend Thoresen Ferry sailing within a mile or so off Pigeon Coo pig farm after its departure from Normandy. I suppose COVID came here on the wind too without any kind of airline travel assistance?

Oh, that’s ok then.
Crack on.
Nothing to worry about, apart from bluetongue midges were blown here, but who’s worried about that?

 

[Buchan]

may i ask how the current climate is differing from the historical climate we're aware of through testing core samples etc?

may i also ask how it is our fault ?

finally may i ask what we can do about it ?

If you can wait a bit as I am away for a few weeks!