Bedfordshire Police have now suspended all grants indefinitely due to Plymouth.

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mel b3 said:
To be honest , a lot of shooters between the age of 25 and 50 , will probably have a mortgage and kids , and be pretty skint , so you wouldn't really expect that to be much of an indication as to their suitability to own fac/sgc .
I suppose that once things move onto bankruptcy and CCJs etc , that could be a bit different.

I'm starting to think that I really should give my mate the fiver back that I borrowed in 1985 , because the xxxx is still moaning about it , and it might scupper my renewal next year.😁
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£5 since 1985 👍 with interest your bankrupt so it will scupper your renewal 😂😂
 
TopDown said:
I would prefer that to stopping variation but it's getting to the point where licensing units are really struggling.
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The fault is with Police management ! Lets not forget that , its not us at fault and other Constabularies are doing better than they did in the past ( I seriously rate Lancashire the last few years) In the past there where lots of crazy issues and daft rules added.
I think the route of licencing issues is trying to find ways to stop or delay a reasonable application for grant and variation rather than spend time looking into how they might support the case without good clear reasons to not grant . Its called a licensing department right ? Not the not licensing department
The real issue to which we must focus on is how can we the shooting community help ?

Mis-management however should not be rewarded with more money from us or our taxes ( remember the Government dont have ant money , its our money donated in income tax and all the other taxes VAT, RFL, etc etc and lets not forget licencing fees)
 
Liveonce said:
credit checks after this incident.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Pictures show remains of £1.2m 'murder mansion' gutted by fire

Christopher Foster, 50, shot dead his wife Jill, 49, and daughter Kirstie, 15, before gunning down their horses and dogs and then setting alight his £1.2million Shropshire home in August 2008.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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2008? Has it really taken them 15 years to start looking at finances after that? Or is it a post Portsmouth, catch all, check everything, policy now.
 
12gsnapcaps said:
considerably greater checks. In certain cases, checks with external agencies, such as health professionals, social services, probation services, multi-agency groups.
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I know police firearms department like to put vetting responsibility onto others... the agencies you see listed above are all in freefall because of demand, massively reduced staffing levels, as for asking social services for help 😂 fkin good luck with thet one 👍
Bes thing for people effected is - move.
 
Ratel said:
It makes me wonder whether Bedfordshire are not acting illegally. They are paid by the public as a service, which by suspending part of that service could be construed as a fraudulent act.👮🤔
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if we acted like WJ we would hit them with a judicial review to find out.
 
Worried now! I put in for my FAC on the 12th online. Payment was taken but I’m not sure if they are cancelling all applications or just not accepting any new ones. (ie the website now doesn’t allow new applications).

Anyone have any idea if they will still be progressing applications already submitted before the decision to suspend?

Their website reads that they are “working through applications as quickly as possible”. But doesn’t say it is cancelling any current applications ? It’s not too clear.

I’m an SGC holder applying for an FAC , if it makes any difference
 
Ratel said:
Need one of the rich large bag shooters to have a go at them legally,, but..........
🤣
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I knew a multimillionaire may God rest, his soul, who was asked if he would financially support the fight for foxhunting, he was an avid game shot, lived for grouse. Shooting told me once he would sell his last acre before he gave up shooting Grouse and his reply to said question was do you think I’m ****ing mad!

Men with money, their not stupid they will not invest on a fools mission
 
Norfolk Deer Search said:
I knew a multimillionaire may God rest, his soul, who was asked if he would financially support the fight for foxhunting, he was an avid game shot, lived for grouse. Shooting told me once he would sell his last acre before he gave up shooting Grouse and his reply to said question was do you think I’m ****ing mad!

Men with money, their not stupid they will not invest on a fools mission
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Agreed hence the🤣.
 
I sat down last evening and thought about this whole situation Police/Fieldports/Public.
I am getting close to the end of my allotted span and I suppose have been extremely lucky along with a couple of my still surviving compatriots.
We talked of our lives and all Fieldports and how we all have hunted with hounds either on foot or ridden. Hares, Fox, Deer, Otters, Mink were the order of the day. We have all flown out own or others Hawks and Falcons. We have ferreted or caught thousands of rabbits, done terrier work, and shot driven game of every sort. We have stalked all species of deer and even been out on the mud after wild fowl.
I now realise that we have had the best of it and I feel for the youngsters that will never see or do what we have done.
The public are by and large anti gun and were anti hunting with hounds, although they don't mind rats getting a slow painful death from poisoning.
My first gun licence came from the post office and cost ten shillings, my fac was granted by the police within two weeks. We then had to get a shotgun certificate, a white card, FAC remained the same. Next came the shotgun certificate and having to justify it, next SGC and FAC medical cert. From then on it's been all downhill and if you look at it logically things like Bedfordshire's statement would appear to be the thin end of the final wedge to remove guns from public hands. Combine this with the woke and vegan world which we are developing into and there is no long any future for shooting.
Thank goodness I was born when I was as future generations will not even enjoy half of that which I have had.
🦡🦊🦌🐇
 
Druid said:
2008? Has it really taken them 15 years to start looking at finances after that? Or is it a post Portsmouth, catch all, check everything, policy now.
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Plymouth has been a wake up call to them, because unlike as most suspect, after Dunblane they have been unable to hide, they have been found wanting, and no chief constable is going to want that to happen again.

So they will play by the rules and guidance and dot every i and cross every t, they will look for every opportunity not to issue a certificate and only then issue it. Regardless of how long the process takes to complete.
 
@Bowland blades I dont disagree with the premise of your post but I think it slightly ignores the reality of the situation individual forces find themselves in. Some forces have managed very well, some have stayed bottom of the pile and others have moved about in the middle. For as long as licensing is the responsibility of the police it will be subject to the same pressures as forces experience, namely funding and resources. Both of those things are in short supply right now. Cuts to policing budgets have real world effects.

Coupled with the resourcing issues is the risk which has to be balanced. I don't envy either licensing departments or Chief Constables this particular issue. The knowledge of an individual, the investigation of good reason, public safety and Human Rights Act are rarely mentioned together when an incident occurs, usually only the first one. With the incidents involving certificate holders and the revelations in the wake of Plymouth played out in a media cycle only really interested in sensationalism, it would be unsurprising if the appetite for it is dimmed as far as Chief Constables are concerned. I don't believe there is a deliberate tactic to delay and refuse certification as @sikamalc may very reasonably do. That isnt to say there are not some rare but obvious exceptions. The characterisation of mis-management is an easy one to make but licensing is a very small part of what the police service does.

I think there could be a case that forces are acting unlawfully by stopping grants/variations/renewals. It would require a judicial review to make the determination though. An expensive test case for sure.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I am attracted to a national standalone licensing authority. This would ensure consistency across the country which currently exercises the shooting organisations. It should also be more efficient without all 43 forces having to arrange a licensing department. I haven't researched whether this is part of Firearms Act 1968 which can be altered by secondary legislation. If it requires primary legislation then I think there is little hope for change. I doubt there will be the political will to deal with firearms in a legislative capacity other than to further restrict the ownership of them.
 
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