Best Way To Beat the Antis

[jimbo1984]

IMHO you need to work through as shooting organisation and most individuals do not have the skills to represent them selves or are too emotionally invested to balance the politics.

Rather like the old "the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client" saying

BASC is I believe the largest shooting organisation? We should all support it regardless of weather or not we are members of another shooting organisation. Strength in number and financial strength is required. If you begrudge the £80.00 per year then be honest, you don't realy care do you.

We should all monitor performance and actively elect the right people for the job in BASC rather than letting it be an "old mates club"

BASC should be MUCH more proactive in its publicity in support of hunting and conservation

BASC should be MUCH more active on social media like SD and generally on social media platforms which represent support or opposition to hunting and conservation related to hunting.

The problem with all such organisations is they all too quickly become insular and loose the support and respect of their own members.

Slagging off BASC is easy, supporting it guiding it and understanding what it has to deal with, is a hell of a lot harder. IMHO

So this organisation. which you openly admit doesn’t do enough , will suddenly start doing what needs to be done because we pour more money into it ?( despite already having a large bank balance) I’ll have what your having .....

 

[Chasey]

So this organisation. which you openly admit doesn’t do enough , will suddenly start doing what needs to be done because we pour more money into it ?( despite already having a large bank balance) I’ll have what your having .....

1: Make it do enough by getting involved

2: Yes, because without investment nothing will change. EVERYTHING has a cost


NOTE: I only chose BASC because its the most likely to make an impact. Its a bit like being a liberal but never voting Liberal because you know they are not going to get into power. Same with the lesser shooting organisations.

Get behind (and preferably involved) in the one most likely to make a difference.

 

[jimbo1984]

1: Make it do enough by getting involved

2: Yes, because without investment nothing will change. EVERYTHING has a cost


NOTE: I only chose BASC because its the most likely to make an impact. Its a bit like being a liberal but never voting Liberal because you know they are not going to get into power. Same with the lesser shooting organisations.

Get behind (and preferably involved) in the one most likely to make a difference.

I’m involved with three orgs that actually do something ,
Basc already have investment mate they just choose to spend it on nice lunches , hotels and motors rather than fighting for shooting , increasing the amount just means nicer hotels lunches and motors , it’s a no from me , sorry they’ve done too good a job convincing me they’re not bothered .

 

[BryanDC]

I believe that our best tactic is for the “shooting organisations” to be proactive (as I’ve mentioned previously on here)
They need to start campaigning for things such as , for some random examples that I am just making up off the top of my head: compulsory culling of vermin on nature reserves......adding an extra day to the grouse season......government funding to help pay for ammunition spent during driven grouse shoots......extra subsidies for any land owners with active vermin management.....lower the minimum age to hold FAC to 10yrs old.....etc. etc. Things that we actually aren’t too bothered about but annoy the anti hunting/shooting people enough to ensure that the antis are always outraged and on the defence and have less time to Attack us.
That’s what I’d like to see.

I think if any shooting organisation started with those tactics they would soon lose any respect they have. I agree they should go on the offensive. But to a certain extent that should be a charm offensive. Promote what is good about what we do. Be the first to point the finger at the wrong doers and throw them out and stand up for the community that pays their wages. It just seems that they keep their heads down until something bad comes along and then they start going on the defensive. It shouldn't be like that. If for example BASC have all this money in their "war chest" why not use it for positive propaganda. Calling it a war chest sounds to me like they have already given up. If the people in charge won't do it, then next time there is a vote make sure you take part if you are a member and vote for the people that will move forward.

 

[finnbear270]

And that's another reason why 1 big super org is not a good idea.
Wot if they become completely useless too ( which would be the most likely outcome as paralysed with in fighting trryng to get so many different venue points, sometimes conflucting to agree)

I've always thought 2 big orgs is a better set up, still 2 big orgs so not too fractured a voice and ud hope they would keep each other on there toes and if 1 dropped the ball on something the other would cover it ( like CA done over the LAG debacle)

The massive problem we have now is ALL the orgs are pretty bloody useless, if only 1 raised the game is hope the others would follow.

Our cousins across the pond seem to do OK with their "Super" org.

 

[Chasey]

I’m involved with three orgs that actually do something ,
Basc already have investment mate they just choose to spend it on nice lunches , hotels and motors rather than fighting for shooting , increasing the amount just means nicer hotels lunches and motors , it’s a no from me , sorry they’ve done too good a job convincing me they’re not bothered .

Which is where the "get involved" bit comes in

We should stop that waste of funds (if it reely exists which it may or may not"

Elect the right people and get behind them

The problem here is you say you work with three shooting orgs who are making and impact.

I cant even name three other orgs. That's how little impact they have

I know the NGO which is great, but I am not a game keeper.

 

[finnbear270]

IMHO you need to work through as shooting organisation and most individuals do not have the skills to represent them selves or are too emotionally invested to balance the politics.

Rather like the old "the lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client" saying

BASC is I believe the largest shooting organisation? We should all support it regardless of weather or not we are members of another shooting organisation. Strength in number and financial strength is required. If you begrudge the £80.00 per year then be honest, you don't realy care do you.

We should all monitor performance and actively elect the right people for the job in BASC rather than letting it be an "old mates club"

BASC should be MUCH more proactive in its publicity in support of hunting and conservation

BASC should be MUCH more active on social media like SD and generally on social media platforms which represent support or opposition to hunting and conservation related to hunting.

The problem with all such organisations is they all too quickly become insular and loose the support and respect of their own members.

Slagging off BASC is easy, supporting it guiding it and understanding what it has to deal with, is a hell of a lot harder. IMHO

guiding it ?Bloody nigh impossible

 

[Chasey]

I think if any shooting organisation started with those tactics they would soon lose any respect they have. I agree they should go on the offensive. But to a certain extent that should be a charm offensive. Promote what is good about what we do. Be the first to point the finger at the wrong doers and throw them out and stand up for the community that pays their wages. It just seems that they keep their heads down until something bad comes along and then they start going on the defensive. It shouldn't be like that. If for example BASC have all this money in their "war chest" why not use it for positive propaganda. Calling it a war chest sounds to me like they have already given up. If the people in charge won't do it, then next time there is a vote make sure you take part if you are a member and vote for the people that will move forward.

SO a TV add pointing out the environmental benefits of hunting in the UK would be a waste of time would it?

I personally have spread the good news about RSPBs cull records for the protection of birds in the UK to as many people as would listen. I put it on my diving forum and my Turkish Expats forum and the response from the now enlightened is comforting.

Theres still the rabid antis but they will never be changed and that's not the people we need to influence as their numbers are even smaller than ours.

 

[Chasey]

guiding it ?Bloody nigh impossible

I don't believe in impossible. Challenging is my upper limit in such matters

 

[finnbear270]

Achieving a win in a challenging situation is an aim, missing the mark with that lot is an ever present option.

 

[BryanDC]

SO a TV add pointing out the environmental benefits of hunting in the UK would be a waste of time would it?

I personally have spread the good news about RSPBs cull records for the protection of birds in the UK to as many people as would listen. I put it on my diving forum and my Turkish Expats forum and the response from the now enlightened is comforting.

Theres still the rabid antis but they will never be changed and that's not the people we need to influence as their numbers are even smaller than ours.

No Chasey, I never said anything like that. Quite the opposite, that's exactly the type of thing that the shooting orgs should be doing. As you say the rabid antis are a small number, it is the general public that we need on our side. They don't like the rabid antis anymore than us. But the antis are very effective at getting their message out there. It's about time that the shooting orgs did as well.

 

[sikamalc]

NGO, BDS, CA, there's 3 straight out the gate Chasey.

BASC have lost their vision, and they have lost many members over the years, I for one would never join again after the total fiasco and cock ups they performed many years back. And this involved the death of a young shot who I took stalking in Scotland some 19 years ago, after he had been stalking with me and had also won the week through BASC.
Getting behind one large organisation is like putting all your eggs/money in one basket. It never works, and from the recent events over the past couple of years that I have seen with BASC I am glad I am out.

 

[Chasey]

NGO, BDS, CA, there's 3 straight out the gate Chasey.

BASC have lost their vision, and they have lost many members over the years, I for one would never join again after the total fiasco and cock ups they performed many years back. And this involved the death of a young shot who I took stalking in Scotland some 19 years ago, after he had been stalking with me and had also won the week through BASC.
Getting behind one large organisation is like putting all your eggs/money in one basket. It never works, and from the recent events over the past couple of years that I have seen with BASC I am glad I am out.

Fair play but I don't know the BDS or the CA?

WHilst I agree theres big failings (which also always seems to be the case in the biggest of ANY organisation) I stand behind the point you have to back the most likely winner.

 

[Chasey]

Can somone tell me why theres never been a TV series on hunting which outlines the beauty and environmental impact of the sport?

For some odd reason Jack Hargraves springs to mind, he was inspirational in my youth, Have his album somewhere of short stories and the one where he kicked a pike ashore with his boot sticks in my mind

Id love to see something shot with the cinematic skills of that old Chris Yates fishing series and the ability to manage a sensitive subject with a very positive edge.

 

[McKenzie]

Can somone tell me why theres never been a TV series on hunting which outlines the beauty and environmental impact of the sport?

For some odd reason Jack Hargraves springs to mind, he was inspirational in my youth, Have his album somewhere of short stories and the one where he kicked a pike ashore with his boot sticks in my mind

Id love to see something shot with the cinematic skills of that old Chris Yates fishing series and the ability to manage a sensitive subject with a very positive edge.

Have a look at the Pace Brothers series; they have a pretty good stab at it.

 

[BryanDC]

There were never enough episodes of "Out of Town" with Jack Hargreaves. I grew up with them also. I also remember a series with Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall called "A Cook on the Wild Side" That was also very good for promoting environmentally sustainable hunting gathering.

 

[Heimdall]

I think the best way to beat the anti,s is to educate. My children and grandchildren all know where out food comes from and for the main not from a supermarket. Teach children the need for cull polices and why we have to manager bird and animal numbers. Children are not stupid and have more understanding that most give credit, children say it as it is or how they see it (sometimes at the most inappropriate times). I think if the larger orgs were to aim at educating children and try to have lessons in schools things would be so much better. The only stumbling block is the adults in charge of educating get passed them and your on a winner. If we cant achieve this its our children who will be the anti,s of the future simply due to lack of education. Just look at what is happening with regard to pollution by plastics, ask a child there opinion on it and they will tell you straight. Most of the clean up operations are driven by children and there determination to do the right thing. All due to the fact they have been educated about the problems caused.

 

[Pine Marten]

A really good place to start is to lead by example and do so visibly. I was reading the BASC magazine this morning and the new Vice Chairman had an article stressing how the BASC may be "the voice of shooting", but every single of us is also. What we do is visible, there's no more hiding in a corner with no-one noticing. I mean here we are posting all over the internet. When I started out it was very hard to find out anything much about fieldsports. Now you're an unfiltered Google search away from a wealth of material, good, bad, indifferent. So if we start by not hiding what we do, because we're perfectly at ease with it and talking about it, because it's irreproachable and stands up to scrutiny, that will make the work of BASC etc a lot easier.

Personally, I always start by food though. No-one objects to hunting for food. Especially if it's delicious. That does not mean making everything into burgers.

 

[foxdropper]

My own feeling are that antis are here to stay .There is no combating ignorance in its purist form .The best and only way to deal with these people is to completely and utterly ignore them and go about your legal business which not only puts you immediately in the right but winds them up more than provocation .
I’ve had more than my fair share of antis with the hunts in the past and once whilst fishing. I used to bite but that only gets you on YouTube looking a plonker with the editing ,nowadays it’s more satisfying to blank them totally which is what we should be doing nationally .We have nothing to be ashamed of ,are doing nothing wrong yet some seem to be on the back foot all the time .
Ignore them and they go away to pastures new and this applies to them all whether action by the internet or on the ground .
Our local hunt used to be a bloodbath years ago with the unwashed coming up from Bath but nowadays it’s very rare to smell any of them due to a blanket ignore policy from the riders to the terriermen .
No bite equals no return .
On the flip side antis have brightened up many a dull day elsewhere especially when off piste .

 

[jimbo1984]

Which is where the "get involved" bit comes in

We should stop that waste of funds (if it reely exists which it may or may not"

Elect the right people and get behind them

The problem here is you say you work with three shooting orgs who are making and impact.

I cant even name three other orgs. That's how little impact they have

I know the NGO which is great, but I am not a game keeper.

You don’t have to be a gamekeeper to be with the ngo ....... the gwct does great work and a charity called songbird survival that does very good work on surveys such as corvid impact ,
Believe me the waste of funds exists, the rot has well and truly set in at basc it’s pointless trying to salvage it , much better the members left and joined orgs such as the ngo who actually don’t want to see shooting banned .