Binoculars vs strelok

[Gm81]

I was shooting at a 4" gong at 378 yds.
Scope is 1/8 moa @ 100yd swaro x5i
I used my swaro range bino and entered the drop clicks on my scope. It was 52 clicks. It was low. I have works this out to 6 5/8 click value. Is this correct?
So I opened strelok and it said 6 7/8. Adjusted my scope to this and It was a hit every shot.
Using strelok again. I can see that my actual drop is 2" low I think. I have attached my table do maybe you can see my logic.
Basically if I enter this in binocular app as a 2nd aim point with this drop. I'm hoping it will true my ballistic up.
Do the messy working look correct to people more knowledgeable than me?

 

[malmick]

I used my swaro range bino and entered the drop clicks on my scope. It was 52 clicks. It was low. I have works this out to 6 5/8 click value. Is this correct?

52 clicks is 6 4/8 on your turret.

The difference between the Swaro value and Strelok is 3/8 moa. This is more like 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at 378 yards.

Quick reckoning off the top of my head, so stand to be corrected.

 

[Gm81]

52 clicks is 6 4/8 on your turret.

The difference between the Swaro value and Strelok is 3/8 moa. This is more like 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at 378 yards.

Quick reckoning off the top of my head, so stand to be corrected.

Thanks Malmick
I'm not going to argue it. My calculation was 52 divided by 8 which got me 6.5
If it was 400yds dead I can work that out nice and easy. I also find imperial hard work.

If I go into advanced mode on my app. I can put in a correction at a distance. But it's never something I've done. My 308 matches perfect.
My thought is put the second distance and drop I'm good to go

 

[malmick]

The actual calculation based on 1moa = 1.047" at 100 yards would be:

1.047 x 3.78 x 3/8

So 1.48"

Whichever app or system you use you are wise to correct it through real world shooting with that primer, case, load, bullet combination for that rifle.

 

[Gm81]

The actual calculation based on 1moa = 1.047" at 100 yards would be:

1.047 x 3.78 x 3/8

So 1.48"

Whichever app or system you use you are wise to correct it through real world shooting with that primer, case, load, bullet combination for that rifle.

Appreciate your time again.
For some reason I can't enter that into the app. Says there is a problem with the data. I've contacted swaro to see if they can help.

 

[ChesterP]

Just use the truing function in strelock to alter the MV value given that you've used the G7 BC value and true until your predicted matches centre of group.

 

[Gm81]

Just use the truing function in strelock to alter the MV value given that you've used the G7 BC value and true until your predicted matches centre of group.

I'm sorry Chester. Can you put that in something a little more descriptive for me.
I get the G7 BC but I only find 147 eldx with a G1 profile. Which I thought was strange. My friend had an issue and he moved from G1 to G7 bit I don't know why he chose to do it.
Also would trelok true my binocular app?
As you can see I've a lot to learn

 

[malmick]

You can true Strelok and your bino app from real world experience using a chronograph to measure muzzle velocity and from range work at different distances to find out how far your bullet impact point drops. Once you've got muzzle velocity and checked drops at say 200, 300 and 400 yards you should have all the data you need.

 

[Gm81]

You can true Strelok and your bino app from real world experience using a chronograph to measure muzzle velocity and from range work at different distances to find out how far your bullet impact point drops. Once you've got muzzle velocity and checked drops at say 200, 300 and 400 yards you should have all the data you need.

I think that's what I was trying to achieve when I was trying to work out the numbers. But now the number aren't liked by Swarovski app. So I'm kind of stuck.
Probably be easier if strelok was off.

 

[Gm81]

Would using a G7 coefficient work on my app I wonder? I have found the info for it hornady. Some reading to see why they are different......

 

[Bowland blades]

At less than 400 yards ? I wouldn't even dial , Shooting in 50 yard intervals out to your max will teach the shooter so much more than electronics and remember that a dope works in one atmosphere and the effect of wind over contours combined with twist direction .
Sounds like i am over complicating things ? Well actually i am simplifying things. Sorry I cannot write a few pages but it wouldn't help , these things are learnt with a pen and notebook actually shooting and recording results in different conditions .
In zero correction for wind etc you can keep within the kill zone of large deer to 400 yards with just about all our standard range of all deer legal rifles from 243 win to 300 win mag once you learn how your kit works

 

[Gm81]

At less than 400 yards ? I wouldn't even dial , Shooting in 50 yard intervals out to your max will teach the shooter so much more than electronics and remember that a dope works in one atmosphere and the effect of wind over contours combined with twist direction .
Sounds like i am over complicating things ? Well actually i am simplifying things. Sorry I cannot write a few pages but it wouldn't help , these things are learnt with a pen and notebook actually shooting and recording results in different conditions .
In zero correction for wind etc you can keep within the kill zone of large deer to 400 yards with just about all our standard range of all deer legal rifles from 243 win to 300 win mag once you learn how your kit works

I don't disagree with what you say. I do both. But when I know something isn't correct. Surely any sensible person would try to correct it?
Plus there is no harm in playing and learning.

 

[MarinePMI]

Truing a ballistic solver involves "truing" two separate variables, each dependent on range.

Assuming you haven't used a LabRadar or Magnetospeed (which are VERY accurate), and are going off of velocity data from an older (i.e. optical sensor based) chronograph. Out to about 600yds, you need to "true" the solver by changing the velocity until the impacts match the predictions.

Past 800yds, you need to "true" the ballistic coefficient itself, until impacts match predictions.

The primary reason for this is that most solvers use a single BC, and a velocity to create a predicted ballistic arc. Often times, these arcs are not completely accurate at distance because they calculate everything from the muzzle. BC of the bullet at muzzle velocity, and a "standardized" library then predicts decay of the BC and velocity. And so, the arc that you get is very approximate, and worse so, as range increases.

Hence why Applied Ballistics' Custom Drag Models tend to be more accurate, since their solver is based on multiple BC's, based on captured data at range (out to 900yds IIIRC) from a doppler radar. Therefore they are based on empirical data of actual collected data from that particular bullet's performance.

But I digress....

If your velocity captured is a known good capture, don't mess with the velocity. Likely, something else is input incorrectly (Density altitude and temperature are the most common data entry errors).

As to BC, G1 form factors tend to perform better at closer ranges. G7 form factors tend to perform better at distance (past 700 yds). Regardless, what you need to understand is that a BC is not a static number; it changes as velocity increases or decreases. They are not interchangeable. If your solver doesn't support G7, then don't put in a G7 BC. Most solvers support both these days, but there are some legacy ones out there that still only support G1.

After typing all this out, I will add one other thing....

@Bowland blades is absolutely correct. If you are shooting less than 400 yds, you're overcomplicating things. Determine your Point Blank Range (PBR) and zero your rifle accordingly, and go hunting. If you want to extend that range, tape an index card with your come-ups onto the side of the stock. But most likely, you'll never use it at normal hunting ranges.

JMTCW...

 

[nun_hunter]

What version of Strelok do you have? From memory the free version only uses G1 BCs while the paid versions have the G7 BCs and trajectory validation option

 

[Bowland blades]

I don't disagree with what you say. I do both. But when I know something isn't correct. Surely any sensible person would try to correct it?
Plus there is no harm in playing and learning.

I don't disagree with what you say. I do both. But when I know something isn't correct. Surely any sensible person would try to correct it?
Plus there is no harm in playing and learning.

For a while now folks have dropped the fundamental parts of setting up that allows a new shooter to exceed their true level of competence then as that gets easy build on it, gradually . You simply cannot replace trigger time and

Truing a ballistic solver involves "truing" two separate variables, each dependent on range.

Assuming you haven't used a LabRadar or Magnetospeed (which are VERY accurate), and are going off of velocity data from an older (i.e. optical sensor based) chronograph. Out to about 600yds, you need to "true" the solver by changing the velocity until the impacts match the predictions.

Past 800yds, you need to "true" the ballistic coefficient itself, until impacts match predictions.

The primary reason for this is that most solvers use a single BC, and a velocity to create a predicted ballistic arc. Often times, these arcs are not completely accurate at distance because they calculate everything from the muzzle. BC of the bullet at muzzle velocity, and a "standardized" library then predicts decay of the BC and velocity. And so, the arc that you get is very approximate, and worse so, as range increases.

Hence why Applied Ballistics' Custom Drag Models tend to be more accurate, since their solver is based on multiple BC's, based on captured data at range (out to 900yds IIIRC) from a doppler radar. Therefore they are based on empirical data of actual collected data from that particular bullet's performance.

But I digress....

If your velocity captured is a known good capture, don't mess with the velocity. Likely, something else is input incorrectly (Density altitude and temperature are the most common data entry errors).

As to BC, G1 form factors tend to perform better at closer ranges. G7 form factors tend to perform better at distance (past 700 yds). Regardless, what you need to understand is that a BC is not a static number; it changes as velocity increases or decreases. They are not interchangeable. If your solver doesn't support G7, then don't put in a G7 BC. Most solvers support both these days, but there are some legacy ones out there that still only support G1.

After typing all this out, I will add one other thing....

@Bowland blades is absolutely correct. If you are shooting less than 400 yds, you're overcomplicating things. Determine your Point Blank Range (PBR) and zero your rifle accordingly, and go hunting. If you want to extend that range, tape an index card with your come-ups onto the side of the stock. But most likely, you'll never use it at normal hunting ranges.

JMTCW...

My cheat sheet was on the side of my stock many years ! 10 mph FV windages and trajectory in 50 yard steps , contours angled shots all done from that base data . I dont have one on the stock today purely because I dont need is to shoot deer to around 400 , if its a hard one its because of tricky winds and or contours, not for the need of an App

 

[ChesterP]

You can true Strelok and your bino app from real world experience using a chronograph to measure muzzle velocity and from range work at different distances to find out how far your bullet impact point drops. Once you've got muzzle velocity and checked drops at say 200, 300 and 400 yards you should have all the data you need.

Truing a ballistic solver involves "truing" two separate variables, each dependent on range.

Assuming you haven't used a LabRadar or Magnetospeed (which are VERY accurate), and are going off of velocity data from an older (i.e. optical sensor based) chronograph. Out to about 600yds, you need to "true" the solver by changing the velocity until the impacts match the predictions.

Past 800yds, you need to "true" the ballistic coefficient itself, until impacts match predictions.

The primary reason for this is that most solvers use a single BC, and a velocity to create a predicted ballistic arc. Often times, these arcs are not completely accurate at distance because they calculate everything from the muzzle. BC of the bullet at muzzle velocity, and a "standardized" library then predicts decay of the BC and velocity. And so, the arc that you get is very approximate, and worse so, as range increases.

Hence why Applied Ballistics' Custom Drag Models tend to be more accurate, since their solver is based on multiple BC's, based on captured data at range (out to 900yds IIIRC) from a doppler radar. Therefore they are based on empirical data of actual collected data from that particular bullet's performance.

But I digress....

If your velocity captured is a known good capture, don't mess with the velocity. Likely, something else is input incorrectly (Density altitude and temperature are the most common data entry errors).

As to BC, G1 form factors tend to perform better at closer ranges. G7 form factors tend to perform better at distance (past 700 yds). Regardless, what you need to understand is that a BC is not a static number; it changes as velocity increases or decreases. They are not interchangeable. If your solver doesn't support G7, then don't put in a G7 BC. Most solvers support both these days, but there are some legacy ones out there that still only support G1.

After typing all this out, I will add one other thing....

@Bowland blades is absolutely correct. If you are shooting less than 400 yds, you're overcomplicating things. Determine your Point Blank Range (PBR) and zero your rifle accordingly, and go hunting. If you want to extend that range, tape an index card with your come-ups onto the side of the stock. But most likely, you'll never use it at normal hunting ranges.

JMTCW...

Both good advice.

G7 gives a more accurate description of form factor of the slippery bullet shapes used today over G1 which was originally for ball ammo, well, steep short tangent ogive form factors anyway. It'll pretty much match G7 BC's to about 300m beyond which the truer form factor (G7) for the bullets will provide greater accuracy but as Marine PMI says, G7's are usually averaged over a set distance and you need to true Mv's up to 700 to 800m beyond which you true BC.

At the distances you shoot, simply use strelock with G1 if that's all you have and alter MV figures in strelock until your drops at 200, 300 and 400 approximate as closely as possible to actual on target. Take those drops, and see which ballistic table used on your binos most closely approximates to that. As long as the end result is within the killing zone area at each distance you're good to go. I generally hold off to 200m and dial past that but as I know my drops the only thing I need is the range to target so dialling is rapid. Don't forget a to allow for wind. I tend to hold off for wind which is variable anyway (mostly). It helps using a mill hash or moa hash ret in the scope for such hold offs.