No he isn't. He's speaking the simple truth (and he's talking about continental Europe's borders). If that truth is inconvenient and uncomfortable - and subject to a reporting shutdown by several European governments - that doesn't make it any less true. Shoot the messenger if you will if he doesn't conform to your own political prejudices but the truth remains.
Brexit
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landkeeper
Well-Known Member
There's a lot of willy waving going on here, would the three of you* be kind enough to post up some references so that we can try and tell fact from fiction from propaganda please ?
*Apthorpe, Landkeeper, Tom
Ta very much chaps, carry on,
Irish roots in the Caribbean run deep | IrishCentral.com
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
It's well known L'KEEPER, this Irish connection. Irish television, RTE, did a programme on it some few years ago.
I think you can find reference to it on the internet.
BBC did one, Montserrat, nigh on two decades ago as it was before the volcano and the subsequent evacuation of the island.
I think you can find reference to it on the internet.
BBC did one, Montserrat, nigh on two decades ago as it was before the volcano and the subsequent evacuation of the island.
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Anyone feel the EU are hoping we will just spit the dummy & walk away?
Open letter to Irish Central, Irish Examiner and Scientific American about their “Irish slaves…
Here you have a letter from 80-odd assorted historians and academics.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html
The New York Times on the Irish slavery myth. Google lists many such results: a fact check by the Houston Chronicle, Facebook apparently now filters it out as fake news, and so on.
On the other side of the coin, I can't find a single reputable historian willing to support the myth, just a selection of non-academics, crackpots, anti-semites and racists - I refer to the publishers of this stuff, not those who may be taken in by it.
Here you have a letter from 80-odd assorted historians and academics.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/17/us/irish-slaves-myth.html
The New York Times on the Irish slavery myth. Google lists many such results: a fact check by the Houston Chronicle, Facebook apparently now filters it out as fake news, and so on.
On the other side of the coin, I can't find a single reputable historian willing to support the myth, just a selection of non-academics, crackpots, anti-semites and racists - I refer to the publishers of this stuff, not those who may be taken in by it.
TOMMO.B
Well-Known Member
player.stv.tv/episode/3dia/emmerdale/
Paul Hughes travels to Barbados in search of the truth behind the story of Scottish white slaves and examines Scotland's role in the Caribbean slave trade.
Well is this fake History? and the genocide of the Highland clearances by the crown.
Paul Hughes travels to Barbados in search of the truth behind the story of Scottish white slaves and examines Scotland's role in the Caribbean slave trade.
Well is this fake History? and the genocide of the Highland clearances by the crown.
Yes. Had you watched the documentary, you would have realised that it is not about Scottish slaves - since there weren't any, although it does touch on the large scale exploitation of black slaves for vast profit by Scots.
And the highland clearances were also not a genocide. Again, there is no historical evidence to support that assertion.
And the highland clearances were also not a genocide. Again, there is no historical evidence to support that assertion.
TOMMO.B
Well-Known Member
What about the massacre of Glencoe. ( that is Genocide in case you never knew) Where were you taught history? IN A CAVE. And the thousands of folk Kicked out of there homes to make way for sheep. Many of these folk were shipped off to work as slaves. since you have free time to doubt history. you may want to visit a library and do a bit of reading in to Scottish and British history. next you will be telling me William Wallace was fake and we never beat the English at Stirling Brig
And 1066 was propaganda to over throw the King
And 1066 was propaganda to over throw the King
No, the EU can't afford for us to just walk away.
Their primary objective is to stop other member states leaving as well. Really they are in an impossible position. No sane person, even in Brussels privately believes that the world's fifth largest economy and the second senior partner in NATO cannot survive and prosper as an independent nation. Its preposterous. If we did walk away and resort to WTO rules we would still out-perform the entire Eurozone except Germany - and German prosperity is no longer a given.
The EU is keen to talk up the myth of an economic nuclear winter for any member who dares to walk out into the big wide world outside cold-war protectionist fortress-Europe. The last thing it wants is someone putting it to the test and shattering the illusion. If we do walk the EU's intervention in our affairs ends entirely. There is nothing they can do but watch and hope to God that we fall on our face.
At the same time they have to make it look as though life as a non-member with access to the free market (can no-one see the irony in that concept) would be worse than remaining a full member. But to make it worse for the UK would inflict even greater damage on key European economies, especially Germany. Economic damage and ruined lives the EU ideologues do not care about - look at the ritual slaughter of Greece - but they do care about stopping further departures. So that isn't really an option either.
What they will do is what they have always do when faced with any existential dilemma: they will prevaricate, procrastinate and talk round in circles in the hope the problem withers and dies with the sheer passage of time. They will try to drag out "negotiations" in perpetuity insisting that not one thread of our relationship can be unpicked until a deal is struck while working hard to ensure no deal is ever struck. In the meantime we keep bankrolling the project and we keep supplying second homes, employment and lucrative exchange rate cash transfusion into Europe's ruined economies through the millions of people who will continue to swarm to the UK to find the jobs which the EU has destroyed in their own countries.
The "process" they want us to go through is no process. It will be an eternally stuck record, perpetual Groundhog day. We can either play along with this charade or we can see it for what it is and walk now with no further ado.
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The deer man
Well-Known Member
Not quite sure what I understand from your statement but assuming I perceive correctly you do not believe the EU area is being flooded with violent criminals and rapists?!
Perhaps you have selectively refused to acknowledge the facts that in Germany, Sweden, France, Italy and many more EU 'departments' where locals have been sexually harassed and raped by immigrants.
Perhaps also you refuse to acknowledge the fact that hundreds of IS fighters have slipped into Europe to spread their Islamic carnage. The UK Security Service are very aware and have publicly acknowledged that many hundreds of IS fighters have returned to the UK, whether born here or not they come from immigrant backgrounds.
Perhaps also you would like to ignore the horrific rape of a young woman in Ipswich this February by two immigrant 'workers' from Romania.
Perhaps we should just ignore the 'politically incorrect' facts until it hits too close to home.
Perhaps then you'll shout the loudest!
What about the massacre of Glencoe. ( that is Genocide in case you never knew) Where were you taught history? IN A CAVE. And the thousands of folk Kicked out of there homes to make way for sheep. Many of these folk were shipped off to work as slaves. since you have free time to doubt history. you may want to visit a library and do a bit of reading in to Scottish and British history. next you will be telling me William Wallace was fake and we never beat the English at Stirling Brig
The Glencoe massacre was the murder of 38 and subsequent death of 40 more Scots at the hands of other Scots. That is not a genocide by any stretch of the imagination.
We have already covered beyond doubt the fact that the Highland Clearances were neither genocide nor enslavement. I have suggested nothing to you that is not historically accurate, whereas you have insisted repeatedly on a load of unsubstantiated nonsense.
TOMMO.B
Well-Known Member
40 deaths in a Village of 50 would count as Genocide. Any way i have to put an end to this. As i have deer to sort out.
It is quite clear you have a one way track on Scottish history. As in it does not exist. So away back and work out if you are English, German, Dutch, or French. ( which is English History) and study that instead.
As none of this we are on about has any thing to do with BREXIT.
It is quite clear you have a one way track on Scottish history. As in it does not exist. So away back and work out if you are English, German, Dutch, or French. ( which is English History) and study that instead.
As none of this we are on about has any thing to do with BREXIT.
No it doesn't but it has a great deal to do with the misuse of Brexit to force other agendas. And inherited grievances over events centuries before any of us were born and the desperate attempts of a few parochial and angry people to pin blame for the past on certain sections of the living out of tribal loathing will do nothing to promote the future prosperity of any region of the UK whether separately or collectively. It will do the opposite.
For every £1 which the EU doles out to the regions of the UK in grants and aid, UK taxpayers collectively had to pay in £2 to begin with. Ther is not a penny of EU spending which could not be replicated and increased and still leave change. The question is how we choose to spend money directly ourselves. That requires debate and discussion, not paranoia, conspiracy theories and tantrums about the perfidious English and scum Tories. And if Scottish nationalists in particular don't like having a UK government in Westminster they have to accept that the alternative is a federal alliance of British nations and that will mean an English Parliament.
By gosh this one gets interesting.
So all the folk in Africa lived a lovely, happy, subsistence type life, I don't think so. Shaka the Zulu king had some very friendly habits, like Impaling the odd thousand or two of his subjects. The bushmen were hunted to near extinction by the Hottentots and other cattle rearing nations long before we arrived to carry it on. The Matabele subjugated the Mashona tribe.
Ireland, the famine was a natural disaster, the English didn't help overmuch,but the average English person was just as downtrodden as the Irish,don't forget,they were the same Landlords.
Scotland, well the clearances were carried out mainly by the Old local chiefs who wanted sheep on the ground instead of crofters and no longer gave a toss for their Clansmen. Culloden was fought by Northern Clansmen with the Southern Scots fighting with the English
By and large it's all a series of greed and power grabs, but certainly we are no worse than any others and it was all a long time ago.
More recently one can look at the Germanic situation, Two world wars started by our "Friends" in Europe with a great loss of life all round, and here they are in the ascendancy again. How does one explain that,apart from the rise of the EU.
In my HO the sooner we say "Enough is enough" and walk away the better.
Famine, poverty, the lack of amenities abroad have done and will continue to happen ad infinitum.
My Avatar is worth reading in Revelation "And I beheld a Pale horse etc", it is slowly happening as we write.
So all the folk in Africa lived a lovely, happy, subsistence type life, I don't think so. Shaka the Zulu king had some very friendly habits, like Impaling the odd thousand or two of his subjects. The bushmen were hunted to near extinction by the Hottentots and other cattle rearing nations long before we arrived to carry it on. The Matabele subjugated the Mashona tribe.
Ireland, the famine was a natural disaster, the English didn't help overmuch,but the average English person was just as downtrodden as the Irish,don't forget,they were the same Landlords.
Scotland, well the clearances were carried out mainly by the Old local chiefs who wanted sheep on the ground instead of crofters and no longer gave a toss for their Clansmen. Culloden was fought by Northern Clansmen with the Southern Scots fighting with the English
By and large it's all a series of greed and power grabs, but certainly we are no worse than any others and it was all a long time ago.
More recently one can look at the Germanic situation, Two world wars started by our "Friends" in Europe with a great loss of life all round, and here they are in the ascendancy again. How does one explain that,apart from the rise of the EU.
In my HO the sooner we say "Enough is enough" and walk away the better.
Famine, poverty, the lack of amenities abroad have done and will continue to happen ad infinitum.
My Avatar is worth reading in Revelation "And I beheld a Pale horse etc", it is slowly happening as we write.
landkeeper
Well-Known Member
Ireland, the famine was a natural disaster, the English didn't help overmuch
that has to be the understatement of the thread
that has to be the understatement of the thread
Might we percolate back down to Brexit in a more immediate vein chaps?
tackb
Well-Known Member
well Ireland ruined our six nations grand slam !
Read the whole thing in context my friend, you never helped our downtrodden folk either.
IN CASE YOU NEED LARGER TEXT, THEY WERE THE SAME LANDLORDS.
Had the same discussion before across the water. That time as usual "There are none so blind as those who don't want to see" and broken noses and black eyes all round before we called it quits.
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