Brexit
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2130martin
Well-Known Member
Burrying your head in the sand is dafter,wake up PM and smell the coffee.....terrorism is all around us everyday!!
Hereford
Well-Known Member
The only extreme acts in Cornwall are the prices you charge for twee holiday cottages - at least Dick Turpin wore a mask!
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
And so it has been since before most of us were born. Even when there really were no-go areas in the UK (like "free-Derry") nobody pretended it was WW3. That is absurdly alarmist. And has nothing whatsoever to do with the UK withdrawing from the EU - except that we are I suppose distancing ourselves from countries like France, Germany, Belgium which have a similar interest in combating Islamic extremism.
I'm not sure we've seen much Polish terrorism in the UK....
2130martin
Well-Known Member
The only extreme acts in Cornwall are the prices you charge for twee holiday cottages - at least Dick Turpin wore a mask!
Dick Turpins victims didn't cue on the A30 to get ripped off either!!!
2130martin
Well-Known Member
Don't believe the Northern Ireland conflict was ever on the scale of the current war?
Are you serious???
2130martin
Well-Known Member
Did the IRA ever attack China?
Just on the news now!
Is China in the UK? Really, who cares? If there's one lesson from the current situation, it's that the entire world is not the UK's security zone. Islamic terrorism has killed far, far, fewer people in the UK than Irish terrorism did, yet with far more political over-reaction. It's unthinkable that we would have reacted the same way to terrorism being carried out by white people.
Chanty Wrassler
Well-Known Member
Well it was maybe a little before your time, but prior to us being in the EU/EC/EEC, Brits travelled happily throughout (non-communist) Europe on a UK Visitor Passport, bought over the counter at the Post Office. After we leave, I suspect that it will be pretty much the same, albeit with a "proper" passport. Brits lived and worked in continental Europe, and foreigners lived and worked here, subject to controls. I suspect that again that situation will prevail for skilled workers, but the gap year kids looking for low pay bar work etc would in theory lose out. (The fact that much of that kind of work is often cash in hand would probably mean that things would carry on much as they do now)
Chasey
Well-Known Member
3568 deaths in Ireland between 1969 and 2010???? 1875 were civiliens with no known paramilitary conections???
And this doesn't even touch on the 1000s that died as a result of Winsten Churchill sending in a bunch of thugs called the Black and Tans in 1916 letting them sack villages, murder and rape civilians and commit a raft of other war crimes. I think over 1000 of the B&T were killed as well
Chasey
Well-Known Member
There is simply no comparison to having to get a visa and application for a work permit, which may or may not be turned down, to the present situation where I can go to France and set up my own business tomorrow
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Chanty W is right...to a certain extent. The Visitor's Passport is correct, I had one, BUT this was for tourism only. I've absolutely no doubt Brits will be able to go to the 27 as tourists. As before we joined the then EU of six or seven nations.
But..and this is the point...will we be allowed to work there? Yes lorry drivers will still be allowed to take and pick up cargo. But will Brits be allowed to work in jobs that nationals of the 27 could also do? I fear they won't.
Europe values the so named "four freedoms" more than trade, tourism, etc.. I'm doubtful they will allow us the UK to have trade without the UK accepting the "four freedoms". And I predict that will be risk May is refusing to acknowledge.
But..and this is the point...will we be allowed to work there? Yes lorry drivers will still be allowed to take and pick up cargo. But will Brits be allowed to work in jobs that nationals of the 27 could also do? I fear they won't.
Europe values the so named "four freedoms" more than trade, tourism, etc.. I'm doubtful they will allow us the UK to have trade without the UK accepting the "four freedoms". And I predict that will be risk May is refusing to acknowledge.
2130martin
Well-Known Member
87 per year,tragic but Not as many as the current war with Islamic Extremists is causing,41 years of a battle with this group will be far worse. Time will tell!
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Or to be more correct twice this nation got dragged into wars that had little to do with us.
You would expect those Europeans that we helped to liberate to be grateful wouldn't you? But not a bit of it , Mr Juncker says Britain "must be punished" and intends sending us a bill for 52Bn Euros.
What future arrangements we have with Europe depends much on whether we have a sensible Brexit based on what is mutually beneficial to both ourselves and Europe or whether the total destruction option that Mr Juncker and his colleagues appear to favour prevails.
The fact that most British people, myself included, fail to appreciate is that for many West Europeans, and virtually every employee of European institutions, the EU has more of the properties of a religion than an economic or political body.
This is why there is such mutual incomprehension between Brexiters and Eurosceptics on the one hand and Europhiles on the other.
The former are too focused on the mundane reality that it's not working, and the latter aren't focused on the reality at all, but on the religious ideal of a perfect EU where everything works perfectly and everyone lives in harmony and equality.
This also means that we can only expect irrational fundamentalism from the EU side, because they can't condone blasphemy and have very little interest in an optimal solution. The ONLY priority is to keep the EU project rolling on (I was going to say "forwards" but that implies progress).
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
You touch on something important in that there is a mismatch on what the UK by and large thinks the EU is for, and everyone else. But it's not a religion. Politicians may sometimes launch into great rhetorical flights on this, but it's really very much about the nitty-gritty. However, at the outset, the stated purpose of the EU is to prevent conflict in Europe. Until the end of WW2, Europe had always been a bloody dangerous place to live. Everyone in continental Europe has a story to tell on that. In Central and Eastern Europe, that continued to be the case until twenty years ago, in Spain and Portugal, until the 70s, in Greece until the 80s. In the Balkans which are sort of the EU frontier, it's still arguably the case. But in this, it has been very successful. Now of course NATO and the UN play their part in this, but it's complementary. All the "ever closer union" stuff really just locks that in. To pick the obvious example, it's now unthinkable for France and Germany to fight. The ties are too deep. THAT is the real point of the EU.
Hornet 6
Well-Known Member
Oh really, then you must live in a cave and never travel beyond firewood collecting range.
Everywhere I go round here, even the local shop I am outnumbered, yesterday I had to go to London, arrived at Liverpool st
and decided to walk to Whitechapel as it was such a nice day, never saw a white face in either direction, and heard barely a word
of english spoken.
Neil.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
You're just jealous because we Londoners have suntans. Seriously though, I can see how it may be surprising if you're not used to it but it's just fine, it doesn't matter. People look different and speak a variety of languages. They're still just people. Some are lovely, some are horrible, most are somewhere in between, same as everyone.
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