That may be how your FLD does it, many don’t.
7mm-284 is an odd one! Surely it’s just .284 ? Or .284 Win…..
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Calibre Definition Question
- Thread starter castbullets.co.uk
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7mm-284 is an odd one! Surely it’s just .284 ? Or .284 Win…..
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Just get it for 7.62x54R and don't worry. My old .280 Remington rifle was reloaded for on a set of dies marked 7mm Remington Express and my P-Hale 6mm Remington would fire and chamber .244 Remington.
What's the obvious example from pre-Tory handgun ban? Pistols in .25 ACP, .32 ACP and .380 ACP using ammunition headstamped as 6.35mm, 7.65mm and 9mm Kurz or 9mm K. Or of course .308 Winchester ammunition in P-Hale rifles roll stamped on the barrel 7.62mm NATO.
What's the obvious example from pre-Tory handgun ban? Pistols in .25 ACP, .32 ACP and .380 ACP using ammunition headstamped as 6.35mm, 7.65mm and 9mm Kurz or 9mm K. Or of course .308 Winchester ammunition in P-Hale rifles roll stamped on the barrel 7.62mm NATO.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Same cartridge different twists. I think...
paul dillon
Well-Known Member
All you need to do is when applying for a specific calibre just put down the calibre size {i,e .243 .300M. .308 .7.62} case length don't should not matter
shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Arent the last 3 the same calibre?
Again, some FLDs want a specific cartridge (case length only comes into it with European cartridges)
Just my two-pennyworth...
I have a .308 (Winchester!) rifle on my FAC. It, and the ammunition for it, is described as 7.62mmx51/.308 which I think is pretty unambiguous?
I also have a Mannlicher-Schoenauer M1910 rifle. It is described as a .375. I've just put in my renewal and have suggested it is described as 9.5mmx57/.375.
As others have said, the problem is that many in firearms licensing don't know the difference between calibre and cartridge...
I have a .308 (Winchester!) rifle on my FAC. It, and the ammunition for it, is described as 7.62mmx51/.308 which I think is pretty unambiguous?
I also have a Mannlicher-Schoenauer M1910 rifle. It is described as a .375. I've just put in my renewal and have suggested it is described as 9.5mmx57/.375.
As others have said, the problem is that many in firearms licensing don't know the difference between calibre and cartridge...
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shakey jake
Well-Known Member
Not just in licensing
There are such a wide choice of calibres and chamberings, many of them being hardly much different than some others in practice. What's more, some are easy to get ammo for, some not so easy and some you simply have to reload for.
When asking for a new rifle, it does seem to make sense to keep your request as wide as possible, obviously in keeping with your FEO's limitations. After all, you might be more interested in buying a good condition rifle second hand rather than one taking a specific round. For example, if you might ask for a .22 centrefire rifle, that leaves you with a pretty wide choice. You might like to have a .222 in reality but you could come across a perfectly looked after and hardly shot .223 which would make sense to get. And so on.
So, effectively when asking for a variation or grant, don't be limiting yourself any more than the FEO would and keep your choices open.
When asking for a new rifle, it does seem to make sense to keep your request as wide as possible, obviously in keeping with your FEO's limitations. After all, you might be more interested in buying a good condition rifle second hand rather than one taking a specific round. For example, if you might ask for a .22 centrefire rifle, that leaves you with a pretty wide choice. You might like to have a .222 in reality but you could come across a perfectly looked after and hardly shot .223 which would make sense to get. And so on.
So, effectively when asking for a variation or grant, don't be limiting yourself any more than the FEO would and keep your choices open.
It is a .284 Win. A 0.284 takes 7mm bullets: across the lands it is 7.00mm. The 7mm bullets are 7.21mm nominal diameter. Therefore, to get supplies and be compliant following the legal changes regarding ammo, the FAC puts down 7mm-284 when they mean 7mm/.284. BTW, it has a remarkable chamber pressure with both my loads and the previous owner's: I am making two new .284 rifles now as I like the calibre and have some ideas on improving the accuracy following half a year of experimentation with the one I have. Getting the variance added to do that was interesting.
In Scotland, the FEOs have a database of chamberings and calibres and pull from that to try to make FAC descriptions uniform.
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I know what it is!
Apart from 7.62/.308 which is to allow you to buy the civilian and nato cartridge it’s inconsistent with the others you listed, you don’t have 6.5mm-.264 or 6.8mm-.277 on there, so your descriptions aren’t uniform.
My FAC lists each cartridge specifically, which is good really as I have several that shoot the same calibre bullet eg .308, 30-30, 7.5x55, 300 PRC. If I had 7.62/.308 as you suggest I may well struggle, particularly for the 7.5!
Had a tot up of allowances the other day 9250 rounds and only 3000 of those are rimfire, having the allowances split is handy as far as I’m concerned!
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The Home Office have asked the FLDs to avoid using broad calibre definitions that cover multiple chamberings whenever possible.
There was a case up north, near the borders iirc, where a .22" RIFLE slot was filled with a 22 centre fire. It went to court and the judge said if you meant 22rf (or LR?) then you should have put that on the FAC.
I did not suggest that. Neither would I imply you do not know what a .284 is; I am debating a contrary view to yours as to what to ask for on the cert, to ensure all we do is above reproof and we do not trip over rules being too exact. We both know people even have problems buying 7.62 ammo just because their cert says 0.308 only and they are not aware of the need to ask for both from the outset!
The solution that works for me is I have the full list of calibres that match the rifles PLUS .308/7.62mm even though I do not have a .308, because that covers having the parts for 7.5mmx55 and some neck downs. It allows me to have 7.5mm ammo and to buy 0.308 bullets that fit that ammo, as well as cases or even full .308 ammo which can be converted into something more useful.
I agree with you that the database of descriptors that the FEOs use is not uniform.
None of the ammo or rifles list a case length.
By the way, I managed to pick up an almost unused CNC EDM machine recently for just £520 because the auctioneer did not know what it was, and it can do dies for things REALLY well. Also using it to experiment with precision bolt ends and receivers, where calibre is whatever one marks on it. I got the extra slots to do this, without RFD registration as it is not a commercial service.
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Your listing is not consistent, simple as that.
Do you have an 7.5x55? No RFD I know would sell me 7.5x55 ammunition on a 7.62 ammunition slot.
You are also missing the point, because your FLD will accept 7.62 or 6.5 you are saying that is what we should all ask for. Mine won’t, I can ask until I am blue in the face (I have asked), they will list the ammunition cartridge specific or where there is commonality between cartridges they will list both if asked such as 7.62/.308 or .223/5.56.
(I also don’t understand why you have liked the post above when it is arguing the exact opposite to what you are saying!)
Yes, I have a K31 as mentioned in my original post.
I liked the previous post as the judge demonstrated common sense, which I have not seen often in judges.
Bottom line seems to be you like strict definitions that nobody can stray from, whereas I prefer generality coupled with respect and common sense to not abuse that trust. Fortunately, my FEO is happy enough to provide that freedom.
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Would a RFD sell a .308 Norma Magnum to someone with a FAC permittimg them to acquire a ".308"?
I would understand the anger then he was thinking of the .220 Swift , if you had got the 22 Savage its would also be a different caliber.
My FAC refers to both Imperial & Metric cartridge designations (including separate allowances for .308W & 7.62x51) but also allows purchase of .22 & .222 ammunition with no cartridge definition attached to either… 
Oh, & some of my .297/.250 ammunition has .22 Hornet on the headstamp as cases have been made from Hornet brass
Oh, & some of my .297/.250 ammunition has .22 Hornet on the headstamp as cases have been made from Hornet brass
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Actually I can’t think of a single case where a rifle, or for that matter any other weapon has caused damage or killed somebody. Guns are inanimate objects.
But put a gun in the hands of the wrong person and you have a potentially very dangerous problem.
The focus should be on the individual. Not whether one cartridge, calibre etc is a few fractions of an inch difference. In the real world there is bugger all difference between a 22 rim fire and a 600 NE or a 410 or a 12 bore. But a shot through the vitals and no paramedic or surgeon will be able to save you unless they can perform their magic very quickly.
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