Can anyone help please

not sure where you are in north Yorkshire but davy and son just outside Scarbrough and will have all the stuff you need,
only know this because ive just bought all the jags and stuff as a mate gave me a .17/.20 rod when he sold his hmr!
truth be told ive been using the 204 for about 9 months and only ever used a pull through a couple of times and ive stuck a fair amount through it and accuracy is always spot on.
 
So it’s wet patch every time then. I came across the patch size issue when doing the hmr. You mention orientation, do you mean centered vs off centre or which way round the patch is?
Ive had a bore guide made for the howa mini, and it is a pro shot trace eraser jag that’s coming, not that I know the difference? Ive heard meths mentioned before but didn’t know if it was harmful to barrels or not so didn’t get any. Yes I know Marcus cheers

J
 
When I got started I visited Norman Clark to get my stuff. The man himself explained what I needed, and how to use it.

I came away with a Tipton carbon fibre rod in .22. I was also going to buy one for my .308 but he said don't bother, the .22 one is quite stiff enough to use for that as well (he didn't have to say that) together with Proshot spearpoint jags, correct size patches, plenty of bronze brushes (they are consumables too, some bigger for the chamber too) and a bottle of Butch's Bore shine ( a big one, which I have not yet finished). He said to buy the big one because at the time it didn't cost much more than the smaller ones, and I would eventually use it up. He also gave me three small flip top bottles to decant it into, along with some ordinary gun oil that I already had, and meths to patch out the oil before shooting, again already had that. Those three little bottles with their flip spouts are perfect for everyday use and dripping the few drops needed onto the brushes or patches.. Also instructed me to keep my bolt lugs greased with ordinary car moly grease, which I already had. Keep the recesses in the receiver, and the bolt face clean with ordinary cotton buds and whatever, white spirit, brake cleaner etc.

Still follow his simple process, bronze brush wet with Butch's boreshine. Patch out, repeat until patches are clean of carbon, and blue dissolved copper. Then oily patch to neutralise the solvent and for storage. Meths patch to remove oil before shooting. Still works for me.

Started off without a bore guide, just lined the mag well with kitchen towel to catch any drips, and made sure to insert the rod straight.

Not sure what a nylon brush is for, Norman didn't suggest that I needed any and a properly used bronze one isn't going to touch barrel steel provided you push it all the way through so all the bristles are free, and (the horrror) even pull it back again. Patches of course you push through then take them off the spearpoint jag. before retracting the rod. If economy minded reverse the old one and send it through a second time with the clean side outwards.

More modern less smelly potions are available, but I wouldn't know if they are any better, if you keep on top of cleaning. I suspect that the carbon mostly comes out having been loosened by the old skool solvent and the bronze brushing action. And the stinky ammonia based solvent definitely deals with the copper.

Here's what Callum Ferguson recommends, much the same, and he ought to know:

Cleaning Procedures | Precision Rifle Services
 
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I got some boretech gear from Rob at Monarch country ,he also has rod adapters in stock works well for me
 
Not sure what a nylon brush is for, Norman didn't suggest that I needed any
My understanding is that copper removing fluid will as happily eat the copper alloyed in a bronze/brass brush as it will that in your bore. Hence the need for a nylon brush when using it.
 
My understanding is that copper removing fluid will as happily eat the copper alloyed in a bronze/brass brush as it will that in your bore. Hence the need for a nylon brush when using it.
I haven't found that to be much of a problem, but yes bronze brushes will be attacked by copper solvents. As I suppose, infinitesimally, will be the brass fittings on them, and the rod. The extremely strong copper solvents, such as Sweets will obviously be far more aggressive than things like Butch's, so probably not best for routine use.

Callum says that "This task should be repeated if the patches are still coming out blue or copper coloured. It’s obvious that the copper solvents are going to react with the copper in the bronze brush and leave small traces of blue colouring but this is nothing in comparison with bullet jacket fouling."

Nylon brushes, if made without e.g. a brass core or fitting, won't, but they seem rather soft, so I don't think will give the same sort of scouring action as the stiffer bristles of a bronze brush. Using a brush (nylon or bronze) with say a steel core introduces other risks.

Just as using jags not made of brass, but harder metals, just might be a worry, e.g. when being pulled out after the patch has been taken off.

BTW, I clean my brushes after use, just a shake around in hot soapy water in a bottle, to get out any abrasive trapped grit/powder residues, and to remove any copper solvent that might slowly eat away at them afterwards. And of course wipe over the rod before and after use.

Perhaps there are good stiff nylon ones, but they must surely use thicker bristles than a bronze one has, and so may not be quite as effective. For the copper solvent to work fully I think that the scouring action helps, to get through any remaining layer of carbon still covering the copper deposits. BTW carbon is a misnomer, the black stuff is more of a cocktail of powder residues, baked on and compressed in by subsequent shots, and far more resistant than pure carbon would be. For some rifles that don't copper-up too badly, carbon fouling is the worst problem, and you really need to keep on top of it. And no, a boresnake isn't going to do much if any useful work, particularly a grubby one. I'd much rather pull through an ordinary bronze brush attached to a flexible plastic coated steel cable, as an expedient field kit, as several people make.

I understand that some modern cleaners, aqueous based, using cyanides, don't use the same reaction that leaves blue colouring, different colours being the result, and maybe less easy to interpret. The cyanide concentration is generally safe, you'd probably ingest more from a shot of e.g. slivovitz

On that point, whatever you use, do wear gloves and eye protection, it only takes the tiniest splash or spray off a brush to get in your eye to damage it, and certainly the traditional potions penetrate straight through the skin, possibly leading to long term skin problems.
 
Thanks

I was always led to believe that bronze brushes would be attacked by copper remover which is why I bought a nylon one, but I will see how it all goes and will change or add to it if necessary

Go on then, who goes one way with the brush and takes it off and who goes both ways with them

J
 
Thanks

I was always led to believe that bronze brushes would be attacked by copper remover which is why I bought a nylon one, but I will see how it all goes and will change or add to it if necessary

Go on then, who goes one way with the brush and takes it off and who goes both ways with them

J
I use a bronze brush with carbon cleaner and a nylon one with copper solvent
 
I use a Pro shot rod, with their brushes/jag/trace eraser jag. Also have/use bore Tech 20 cal nylon brushes. Lyman universal bore guide. If deep clean forrest bore foam but normally Bore tech Elliminator. Nato 5.5mm/223 cleaning cloth roll is perfect size when using above jags. Neil Mckillop advised me to patch out every time I shoot the rifle. I do as routine give mine a very good clean after every 50 rounds. Its clean when the patches come out clean!

D
 
Just located some more helpful guidance for the Op in the correct approach to rifle cleaning as per scene 2 but don’t let your wife/girlfriend/mistress see you at it:

Just make sure you reverse the point of rod entry as he gets this but wrong!

K
 
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