CIC Roe Buck measuring ?

[VSS]

Tannins are found in a great deal of vegetation not only trees, and the repeated application seems to darken the antler over the course of a season. One returning guest shot a very pale trophy buck with me some years ago, before he took it the animal rubbed his antlers on three separate and very bleached fence posts along a fence line. Others go nearly black in the heather. As a percentage of the points toward eg a Gold medal scoring trophy the colour points constitute a maximum potential value of just 3% of the total.

I think soil type and trace element availability can also affect antler colour, although I don't know about roe specifically.
Compare the fallow antler colours in this photo, one being from the rich ground of the English midlands, and the other being from the nutritionally poor ground of North Wales. All the fallow antler in North Wales is almost white.

 

[waggy 1]

Why measure pearling as that starts of proud and sharp and by the time of rutting can be nothing but small bumps. Why is span important or height beauty point are just that. There are nice roe heads and horrible one,s. So if you don't agree do w3hat i do don't get them measured or tell the measurer to remove all point for colour. After all colour only counts for a couple of point,s

 

[sh1kar]

Why measure pearling as that starts of proud and sharp and by the time of rutting can be nothing but small bumps. Why is span important or height beauty point are just that. There are nice roe heads and horrible one,s. So if you don't agree do w3hat i do don't get them measured or tell the measurer to remove all point for colour. After all colour only counts for a couple of point,s

In my experience the antler colour is very much determined by what vegetation they are using for fraying, territory marking etc. In Roe I have noticed the very dark, almost black colouration is caused by beans or peas, the lighter shades of brown by firs of one sort or another

S

 

[David Barker]

In my experience the antler colour is very much determined by what vegetation they are using for fraying, territory marking etc. In Roe I have noticed the very dark, almost black colouration is caused by beans or peas, the lighter shades of brown by firs of one sort or another

S

Isn't it also the sign of a good buck that hold large territory,s and continually rubs his nice colorful antlers.

 

[Freeforester]

I too prefer the darker coloured antlers, but scoring one higher than another of equal physical measurements just because his antlers are darker doesn’t to me make him better or more beautiful! But I suppose that is why some prefer men Brunettes to Blondes

On the old scoring sheets the tine ends, colour and pearling were all designated as ‘beauty’ points, and additional up to 5 points in half point increments could be added or indeed deducted by the judge/assessor for symmetry or lack thereof (up to 3,0 of the 5 points) and part or all of the remaining 2 points were determined by general beauty or conversely ugliness.

 

[Freeforester]

Isn't it also the sign of a good buck that hold large territory,s and continually rubs his nice colorful antlers.

The scoring is weighted toward the older animals, possessing as they tend to greater volume scores, even as their antlers are starting to go back a little.

The animal in the pic is not old (in my opinion), neck too upright, no greyness about the face, not overly powerful looking at the haunches, and the general demeanour of a good 3-4year old if I was pressed to give its age; such animals if left can turn into great 6-8 year old bucks. They do generally (though not always) become much harder to come to terms with beyond 4 years of age, though.

 

[Sol]

There was a controlled burn here recently that got out of hand and almost caught a forestry on fire, obviously being next to an old plantation the moorland Is scattered with established saplings from deer droppings over the year all those went up in flame.

Its usually an established rutting ground for roe, so I'm wondering if we might see a couple pitch black antlers later in the year off that piece.

I guess one could probably imitate the same thinking about it, charcoal is pretty easy to acquire and deer do have consistent year after year fraying trees.

 

[WiltshireStalker]

Does anyone have a link to the evaluation process? I have found the weights required but wanted to have a look at these in a bit more detail before sending off a Roe Buck head.

 

[purdey24]

I have posted the Swedish formula on here before, it usually works out pretty close.

Full Skull weight Deduct 90 x 0.23 + 20

 

[25 Sharps]

I totally understand what you’re saying about Bucks being taken early in the season..But if the Foliage is of the wrong variety in his Territory He will Never develop dark antlers whilst he has a Hole in his Butt

Surely the tannins in oak make for dark antlers? No conifers near me and I’ve seen 2 sets of very dark antlers the last couple of weeks.

 

[Jh1986]

Just got this handsome devil this morning. Never prepared a skull before, nor has any thoughts about medals. This has got me thinking otherwise though

 

[Mike1979]

Just got this handsome devil this morning. Never prepared a skull before, nor has any thoughts about medals. This has got me thinking otherwise though

View attachment 432728
View attachment 432729

Thats a beauty

 

[Leec6.5]

Personally, I can’t see any point in having heads measured!

I mean, for what a tin pot metal and a bit of paper that’s really in all honesty worthless and that there has costed you a minimum of £35 and for what?

 

[wildfowler.250]

Personally, I can’t see any point in having heads measured!

I mean, for what a tin pot metal and a bit of paper that’s really in all honesty worthless and that there has costed you a minimum of £35 and for what?

I get that. Some folk will chuck them in a hedge and others really value them.

I think for me, I just like seeing ‘how they score’. The memory of the day and the venison is more important but it’s interesting to see how one buck compares to a standard in the eyes of someone who handles/scores hundreds of heads in a year.

Some of my favourite stalks have been with does but each to their own

 

[Mike1979]

Personally, I can’t see any point in having heads measured!

I mean, for what a tin pot metal and a bit of paper that’s really in all honesty worthless and that there has costed you a minimum of £35 and for what?

Theres a massive industry built on trophy animals so it obviously matters to lots of people.

Some people hate going abroad and others dont..some own "old fart" rifles and may live in caves or like bog snorkling...whereas others are normal and dont

 

[Jh1986]

I've never been a trophy guy, and it's not like this is my first deer or even my first Roe Buck. That said, it's got a lovely set of antlers so it's more curiosity than anything else.

At a minimum, I'll make a couple of nice sticks. If it's worth measuring though, I'll mount it and I'll also have the medal and the brass from the shot as part of the mount.

 

[Mike1979]

I've never been a trophy guy, and it's not like this is my first deer or even my first Roe Buck. That said, it's got a lovely set of antlers so it's more curiosity than anything else.

At a minimum, I'll make a couple of nice sticks. If it's worth measuring though, I'll mount it and I'll also have the medal and the brass from the shot as part of the mount.

I like to keep most of the heads as a memento rather then a trophy but nowt wrong with getting it scored and having a cert and a medal. If it doesnt have any significance dont bother but if it does crack on Ive got a silver CWD on a pedestal mount with the little medal on the pedestal..makes me happy so sod everyone else. Hes kept with a couple of fallow, a sika and munty which I sorted myself and were either my first or something memorable etc. I also have a few in the barn that remind me of outings but arent that great

 

[Leec6.5]

Theres a massive industry built on trophy animals so it obviously matters to lots of people.

Some people hate going abroad and others dont..some own "old fart" rifles and may live in caves or like bog snorkling...whereas others are normal and dont

All medals mean is £££££ I’ve been there and guided on trophy medal animals!

Now I must admit it leaves a bad taste

 

[Mike1979]

All medals mean is £££££ I’ve been there and guided on trophy medal animals!

No I must admit it leaves a bad taste

Dont disagree with you mate...when money comes into it in general it leaves a bitter taste somewhat but by the same token if you know the price and are prepared to pay it then all is fair. If you have to pay a load of money to shoot the animal then paying a bit extra for a medal isnt the end of the world.

I suppose a lot depends on who takes you..Ive been on paid stalks and one was great and the other was just a money making outing and not one I would ever repeat with the people I went with. No names will be mentioned publicly by me.

 

[ChrisWill184]

All medals mean is £££££ I’ve been there and guided on trophy medal animals!

Now I must admit it leaves a bad taste

I hate to say it but rightly so it means ££££!

I will say it though that I have never paid for stalking and I don’t think that I will. There are too many deer wandering about and I’m lucky to have access to the ground.

Before you get the medals (or at least it’s strong roe bucks in my neck of the woods) in any amount, deer have to be ‘managed’ in a certain way to get these medal animals. Leaving good ones / promising young ones and taking poor ones / old ones / poorer middle aged ones sounds easy but is easily goosed by someone that knows little, mistakes an animal, or simply isn’t too fussed about what he gets. Yes much of it is down to what food and mineral elements are on the ground but if you knacker them when they are young, there is a hole to fill that may take a few years.

Now, I have it that if I have a decent animal on the ground, there will be less poorer animals there as he moves them along, meaning less tree damage (as that is about all I see with roe). Landowners are happy as they see less animals so win win.

If someone wants to come along and pay good money for a buck that is about to start going back, with another likely to take the spot, then fair play (if that is what is done). As said, it has taken a while to get to that stage when it could have been turned to burgers years before. The monsters don’t come around every corner.