Clients only? What a person/client wants?
- Thread starter sharkey
- Start date
Only ever been out with a guide a handful of times. But an absolute must have IMO is an abundance of deer. I would expect to at least see animals at least once during a morning and evening days stalking, and also plenty of sign throughout. If a guide takes clients around a deer desert , or at least ground with very low numbers of deer, then he should not be guiding, unless a: this is made known to the client and is reflected in the charges, or b: those few deer are trophy quality and that is what the client explicitly wants.
I have so far been lucky with my few trips with commercial stalkers in that I have always seen plenty of deer, in fact when down in south I was initially surprised just how many deer there were!!
I have so far been lucky with my few trips with commercial stalkers in that I have always seen plenty of deer, in fact when down in south I was initially surprised just how many deer there were!!
stalker.308
Well-Known Member
I don't pay to stalk with guides, but I think what everyone wants is summed up in one word.
TRANSPARENCY
Transparency of costs
Transparency in regards to success
Transparency in relation to access
Mudman, I am sorry but even in deer utopias you can still not lay an eye on a deer but know hey are there in large numbers.
TRANSPARENCY
Transparency of costs
Transparency in regards to success
Transparency in relation to access
Mudman, I am sorry but even in deer utopias you can still not lay an eye on a deer but know hey are there in large numbers.
howa243
Well-Known Member
Can understand the desirability of this, but assume that it would simply lead to high seats overlooking feed sites.
I like transparency too, hence this thread.
So what are "people" prepared to pay for success & access? How is it measured/valued by different folk & the British culture at large? Is it only about numbers?
We have already seen one opinion about value & expectations but I'm sure there is still many other relevant views about this.
For "transparency". I have already stated on another thread that I consider paid stalking in Britain to be very very cheep (undervalued?) relative to the rest of the world & I am hoping to gain some insight into why this is.
Sharkey
howa243
Well-Known Member
Never stalked abroad but is it possible to do a morning or afternoon stalk in Aus, or are the distances so great that this is not really practicable?
Vipa
Well-Known Member
Quite possibly but it depends on why the client is there in the first place.... For me, Yes I enjoy the stalk or sit (i'm happy with either,) I like the adrenaline rush when you see a deer in the corner of your eye and I love the craic.. but personally, the over riding reason I hunt is so I can harvest my own free range red meat (has been ever since I cringed through Kill It, Cook It, Eat It!)
I have been out on numerous occasions with supposedly excellent (and expensive) guides and seen nothing at all (with no apology or attempt to give back value for money... should have learned but went back for more.... and again!!) not only is that incredibly demoralising but then makes the free range meat extortionately expensive (my wife's venison pies must be worth £300 each!!)
I am not naïve enough to think every outing should result in meat in the freezer (I've been a member of 2 FC syndicates so am used to seeing nothing but that is a totally different proposition.) But if one is paying a guide £70-100 then it would be anticipated that he knew where his deer were and could give an upward of 75% chance of getting a shot off.. If he cant do that then he needs to find another occupation or radically amend his fee structure..
I have also been out with one or two guides who do know where their deer are and will move heaven and earth to put one in front of you (three sometimes!!! and when they should be in bed ill!!! ain't that right Mr Solway Stalker
) and it is people like that who I don't mind emptying my wallet for..The big issue I see with most guides/stalkers is that there is no real incentive to do homework/plan/prepare/graft so they can be almost sure of providing a target... I wouldn't be in business long If I charged £60 an hour and didn't get results... now £20 an hour and another £40 if I get it right is more like it but perversely guides seem to want to charge £70-£120 an outing and then another £40 if you make your stick go bang and then another £30 if you want the meat so one can be staring at the thick end of £200 for a couple of hours walk and 10lbs of meat in the freezer.. I appreciate there are overheads, as there are in most industries, but come on guys... £40 an outing and then the rest if you prove you can do the job... I wouldn't mind paying £150-£200 if I have a beast in the back of my truck on the way home but, bearing in mind, most of us would book a morning and evening together making it potentially £240 for a nice walk.. (some stalkers, who shall remain nameless, insist on it and also back you into a corner on their own accommodation in the process making it £300 for a day out.) and that's if nothing is in the bag... and I haven't even mentioned 'trophy fees' which could potentially push fees towards a grand! Not san issue if that's what you are into and actually get the chance to shoot.. I cant think of many other hobbies out there cost that much!!
The problem is that, whilst stalking is becoming ever more popular, the prices for paid stalks are becoming unsustainable and at some point, particularly if success rates aren't high, the bubble will burst.. a lot of the issue is that most stalking is transient from what I can see, so most guides don't need to worry about generating too much repeat business, just attracting new business... I earn a decent living and could only afford to do it a couple of times a year on a paid basis... get to 3 outings a year and I'm almost looking at family holiday prices... 2 outings a year!! not much of a hobby!
You asked! lol
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I have never hear of a morning or afternoon stalk, but I know fishing guides do this sort of thing close to our urban centres. Taking into account the exchange rate they are about three times more for public, land based fishing (no boats or access/trespass fees, etc) than he prices I've seen quoted for "stalking" in the UK. Guiding rates for hunting down here would start at $350 per day & go up from there depending on the demand. This wouldn't include anything other than the guide & the trespass, not the game. A basic weekend "father & son" hunt including a couple of meat animals & a night in the bush would start at about $1000 on average.
Sharkey
Sharkey
Though to be fair, just about everything I encountered in Australia was eye-wateringly expensive in comparison to what we're used to. £7.00 for a pint of beer...
Not my experience. I can still get a "schooner" down at the RSL (Returned Service League) for $3.50 (1.75 pound?) & even less in happy hour. Yes, If you frequent the tourist spots you'll get served the cat pi$$ (Fosters) & pay the "tourist tax". No one in Australia drinks Fosters, I don't think they even try to sell it here any more. The first thing that I hear from all the pommies I meet who come here is how good & how cheap the food is. Our housing in most major cities is unreasonably expensive though.
Yes, our hunting & fishing, although even more accessible IMO for Mr Average is more expensive than what you guys seem to pay. I'm interested in why this is.
Sharkey
sikamalc
Administrator
I have no idea why Aus hunting maybe more expensive, and no matter where you are in the world there is always going to be those that think its more expensive where they live, but have no idea of the overheads involved for the guide/outfitter.
Some complain at £75 per stalk on here, and again they have no idea of what is involved for a full time professional stalker/outfitter. On another thread someone has put that £150 is a great deal of money. Also all guides have new 4x4 cars and expensive rifles.
Hang on while I stop laughing!
Some do have good kit, and have to pay for it as well, it didn't fall from the sky. Would you expect a stalker/guide to turn up in a Reliant Robin then? What would be your reaction to that?
Talking to a colleague this weekend its amazing how we are seen by some recreational stalkers. You have a dream job they say, so we might have to many, but I doubt they would put up with it after one long winter.
The price depends on many things in different countries, but no one forces any client to pay it.
Some complain at £75 per stalk on here, and again they have no idea of what is involved for a full time professional stalker/outfitter. On another thread someone has put that £150 is a great deal of money. Also all guides have new 4x4 cars and expensive rifles.
Hang on while I stop laughing!
Some do have good kit, and have to pay for it as well, it didn't fall from the sky. Would you expect a stalker/guide to turn up in a Reliant Robin then? What would be your reaction to that?
Talking to a colleague this weekend its amazing how we are seen by some recreational stalkers. You have a dream job they say, so we might have to many, but I doubt they would put up with it after one long winter.
The price depends on many things in different countries, but no one forces any client to pay it.
Perhaps that was me
And to me £150 a day is a lot of money,I was poking fun at sharkeys post about keeping the wolves from the door on such a pittance.£75 a stalk is fair and worth every penny when you are stalking through beautiful countryside.I was not for one minute begrudging pro stalkers their pay so keep up the good work!!!!!!!dave
Quite possibly but it depends on why the client is there in the first place.... For me, Yes I enjoy the stalk or sit (i'm happy with either,) I like the adrenaline rush when you see a deer in the corner of your eye and I love the craic.. but personally, the over riding reason I hunt is so I can harvest my own free range red meat (has been ever since I cringed through Kill It, Cook It, Eat It!)
I have been out on numerous occasions with supposedly excellent (and expensive) guides and seen nothing at all (with no apology or attempt to give back value for money... should have learned but went back for more.... and again!!) not only is that incredibly demoralising but then makes the free range meat extortionately expensive (my wife's venison pies must be worth £300 each!!)
I am not naïve enough to think every outing should result in meat in the freezer (I've been a member of 2 FC syndicates so am used to seeing nothing but that is a totally different proposition.) But if one is paying a guide £70-100 then it would be anticipated that he knew where his deer were and could give an upward of 75% chance of getting a shot off.. If he cant do that then he needs to find another occupation or radically amend his fee structure..
I have also been out with one or two guides who do know where their deer are and will move heaven and earth to put one in front of you (three sometimes!!! and when they should be in bed ill!!! ain't that right Mr Solway Stalker
The big issue I see with most guides/stalkers is that there is no real incentive to do homework/plan/prepare/graft so they can be almost sure of providing a target... I wouldn't be in business long If I charged £60 an hour and didn't get results... now £20 an hour and another £40 if I get it right is more like it but perversely guides seem to want to charge £70-£120 an outing and then another £40 if you make your stick go bang and then another £30 if you want the meat so one can be staring at the thick end of £200 for a couple of hours walk and 10lbs of meat in the freezer.. I appreciate there are overheads, as there are in most industries, but come on guys... £40 an outing and then the rest if you prove you can do the job... I wouldn't mind paying £150-£200 if I have a beast in the back of my truck on the way home but, bearing in mind, most of us would book a morning and evening together making it potentially £240 for a nice walk.. (some stalkers, who shall remain nameless, insist on it and also back you into a corner on their own accommodation in the process making it £300 for a day out.) and that's if nothing is in the bag... and I haven't even mentioned 'trophy fees' which could potentially push fees towards a grand! Not san issue if that's what you are into and actually get the chance to shoot.. I cant think of many other hobbies out there cost that much!!
The problem is that, whilst stalking is becoming ever more popular, the prices for paid stalks are becoming unsustainable and at some point, particularly if success rates aren't high, the bubble will burst.. a lot of the issue is that most stalking is transient from what I can see, so most guides don't need to worry about generating too much repeat business, just attracting new business... I earn a decent living and could only afford to do it a couple of times a year on a paid basis... get to 3 outings a year and I'm almost looking at family holiday prices... 2 outings a year!! not much of a hobby!
You asked! lol
If its all such a horrible experience why do you do it??
Perhaps that was me
dave
So in regards to this thread, you consider 75 pounds fair for half a day if the scenery is nice? Not worried about opportunities for an animal so much?
Would you justify paying more for opportunities to trophy class animals, or access to a "game managed herd", as opposed to a pest managed herd?
If a landowner or game manager "protects" his/her stags & bucks till they are 7 or 8yo what opportunities have they forfeited to get these boys through (an 8yo red stag will have cost 2 finished steers in grass & feed alone)? Should they be rewarded & remunerated for taking this risk? I'd bet that for a stag or buck to reach this age in Britain many opportunities to take him would have been passed up to let him get to this position.
So far we have seen that some folks want an abundance of deer to shoot but don't seem to realise that the landowners objectives come before the stalking client. If the landowner can see some value or remuneration in maintaining enough game for hunting he/she will more often choose to do so. Out of the 75 pounds per stalk what would be a fair return to the land owner to cover the lost opportunity costs in protecting & providing the game & access to strangers?
Sharkey
Cootmeurer
Well-Known Member
When I came over two years ago I was looking for a few things. As an accomplished American stalker I understood the risks/chances. But what I wanted was
1- upfront transparency - cost, time, expectations - no surprises (except from the deer themselves)
2 - honest chance to see a shootable buck. Not shoot, just honestly see.
3 - a great experience (not parked in a high seat)
4 - last and least, to actually kill a buck.
each of those was accomplished, and as a bonus I came back with a nice representative buck that score solid aluminum. I returned last year to try the highlands and again met all my expectations. This was done with SikaMalc, and should I stalk with someone else, my expectations would be the same.
1- upfront transparency - cost, time, expectations - no surprises (except from the deer themselves)
2 - honest chance to see a shootable buck. Not shoot, just honestly see.
3 - a great experience (not parked in a high seat)
4 - last and least, to actually kill a buck.
each of those was accomplished, and as a bonus I came back with a nice representative buck that score solid aluminum. I returned last year to try the highlands and again met all my expectations. This was done with SikaMalc, and should I stalk with someone else, my expectations would be the same.
Thankyou for a straight answer.
Do you consider the cost of such a hunt in the UK represents very good value, relative to similar access for hunting in other countries?
Sharkey
Or well managed shooting grounds.
I think comparing one country to another is stupid at the least, I can hunt small game/vermin in Illinois for £50 per yr on 10,000s of acres, and hunt doc land in NZ for free.
What is good value ?, if I was stalking deer and did not even see a deer and payed £150 for a morning, NO.
but if I was selling stalking as a living then that would be good money, it must pay otherwise there would not be so many people on here selling stalking days.
It's only "stupid" if you confuse paid access & hunting with public hunting. Nothing wrong with comparing apples with apples or in this case paid hunting with paid hunting.
What's the going rate for a red stag in a Kiwi game reserve ATM? Have you had a look at & compared day rates & trophy fees? Is paid access to private land & trophy fees more expensive in NZ than in the UK?
Why is this?
Sharkey
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
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