Custom thoughts

[Sariel]

As has been said the remmy's can look ok but to make them shoot really really well you end up junking all but the action, iand f you want that good it has to be blueprinted. By the time you have done this why not just start with a custom action in the first place.

eg. a year ago i was watching a small group around a chap at a range admiring his new rifle. Mad dog stock, 700 action, trigger & barrel, tactical bases and rings, Badger O bolt knob (more knobs later) and mag assembly, S&B 5-25, ATec, all with a custom duracoat. It looked great (if you go for this look.)
This chap was really bigging it up saying how much it cost who bult it etc. So.......after two hours and countless helpers this chap is not a happy bunny, its shooting ok but not great. He is loosing face rapidly.

The issue was all he actually had was a basic 700 plonked (no bedding at all) into the stock with a load of expensive additions. He didnt know enough to see past what he honestly thought was a serious custom rifle. I felt gutted for him. The outfit in question really plays on the uneducated wannabies. (not their fault and this isnt meant as derogatory)

I have two views.

1) buy a custom rifle
2) but a good factory rifle and rebarrel with a great barrel when the times comes.

My Preferences
Actions: Borden / Nesika
Barrel: Kreiger / Shillen
Trigger: Jewell / CG
Stock: McM
Gunsmiths: Bowers, Ferguson, Kershaw, Norris, Clarke


My R93 (only change being a light trigger) shoots really great to the point where you honestly dont need more performance for hunting, my customs half those R93 groups at worst.

Anybody who thinks a factory rifle (with exception) can shoot as well as a good custom absolutely hasnt had or used one.

 

[MarkH]

Hi

My friend makes these fully moderated 338 lapmag rifles. Very accurate but not that great for the average stalking situation me thinks

Mark

 

[finnbear270]

Anybody who thinks a factory rifle (with exception) can shoot as well as a good custom absolutely hasnt had or used one. You must be thinking about the early Sako's then!

 

[Brithunter]

Well put Sariel someone saw that poor bloke coming and quietly relieved him of his folding stuff . An all too common occurance methinks .

I had a classic stakling rifle that the inletting was not good on a Friday afternoon special if ever I saw one I phoned Riflecraft about re-doing the bedding as grouping was not good. I had played with it slightly and found it hated a floated barrel groups opened up to patterns of 6"+ so added card shims until it tightened up.

So wanted the rifle bedded with this barrel pressure but Riflecraft only free float and wouldn't listen to what I actually wanted I thnk part of the problem was that is was not a Remington 700 so I said thanks thanks but no thanks and it went to Bob Harvey who re-did the bedding and did it so it hardly notices. He also re-fitted the Leupold Q/R mounts as they didn't fit the contour of the action perfectly. They do now and while it won't shoot bug holes it's shoots around MOA with factory ammo (196 grain Privi Partisen SP) and let's face it it's not a varmint rifle being chambered for 8mm Mauser

Oh yes it was NIB when I brought in but had been in a warehouse for many years, I think they were over runs from a special export order and York Guns ended up with them. Before someone asks why it was not returned I'll add that the company was brought out and then shut down as the factory site was worth a heck of a lot to developers it would appear it's now another Supermarket and part of the plot has a Muslim School on it Oh dear what a shame as if we really needed another poxy supermarket

It cost £275 new and the price of Bob's work and shipping back which was a lot less than Riflecraft were quoting. Oh they do good work but not the work I wanted it seems ........... Pity as they are close enough to drive down there whilst Bob is too far a way to do that easily.. However I have another project in the pipeline and will contact riflecraft and see what they have to say about it as it involves a new barrel

 

[Paul 600]

Well put Sariel someone saw that poor bloke coming and quietly relieved him of his folding stuff . An all too common occurance methinks .

I had a classic stakling rifle that the inletting was not good on a Friday afternoon special if ever I saw one I phoned Riflecraft about re-doing the bedding as grouping was not good. I had played with it slightly and found it hated a floated barrel groups opened up to patterns of 6"+ so added card shims until it tightened up.

So wanted the rifle bedded with this barrel pressure but Riflecraft only free float and wouldn't listen to what I actually wanted I thnk part of the problem was that is was not a Remington 700 so I said thanks thanks but no thanks and it went to Bob Harvey who re-did the bedding and did it so it hardly notices. He also re-fitted the Leupold Q/R mounts as they didn't fit the contour of the action perfectly. They do now and while it won't shoot bug holes it's shoots around MOA with factory ammo (196 grain Privi Partisen SP) and let's face it it's not a varmint rifle being chambered for 8mm Mauser

Oh yes it was NIB when I brought in but had been in a warehouse for many years, I think they were over runs from a special export order and York Guns ended up with them. Before someone asks why it was not returned I'll add that the company was brought out and then shut down as the factory site was worth a heck of a lot to developers it would appear it's now another Supermarket and part of the plot has a Muslim School on it Oh dear what a shame as if we really needed another poxy supermarket

It cost £275 new and the price of Bob's work and shipping back which was a lot less than Riflecraft were quoting. Oh they do good work but not the work I wanted it seems ........... Pity as they are close enough to drive down there whilst Bob is too far a way to do that easily.. However I have another project in the pipeline and will contact riflecraft and see what they have to say about it as it involves a new barrel

Your problem was you used Riflecraft! Enough said!

 

[Paul 600]

Hi

My friend makes these fully moderated 338 lapmag rifles. Very accurate but not that great for the average stalking situation me thinks

Mark

Mark, whats the make up of that bad boy? Looks awsome!

 

[MarkH]

Here's the link

http://saxtech.de/waffe/gewehr-06.html

Lutz speaks excellent English by the way.

Mark

 

[75]

Looks like there are well and truly two camps when it comes to customs! Accuracy isn't everything though, and to me a well put together custom is always going to be more enjoyable to use than an off the peg gun

Thanks for all your thoughts (including wraith - although I'm not actually sure I can understand much of what was written )

 

[Brithunter]

Well put Sariel someone saw that poor bloke coming and quietly relieved him of his folding stuff . An all too common occurance methinks .

I had a classic stakling rifle that the inletting was not good on a Friday afternoon special if ever I saw one I phoned Riflecraft about re-doing the bedding as grouping was not good. I had played with it slightly and found it hated a floated barrel groups opened up to patterns of 6"+ so added card shims until it tightened up.

So wanted the rifle bedded with this barrel pressure but Riflecraft only free float and wouldn't listen to what I actually wanted I thnk part of the problem was that is was not a Remington 700 so I said thanks thanks but no thanks and it went to Bob Harvey who re-did the bedding and did it so it hardly notices. He also re-fitted the Leupold Q/R mounts as they didn't fit the contour of the action perfectly. They do now and while it won't shoot bug holes it's shoots around MOA with factory ammo (196 grain Privi Partisen SP) and let's face it it's not a varmint rifle being chambered for 8mm Mauser

Oh yes it was NIB when I brought in but had been in a warehouse for many years, I think they were over runs from a special export order and York Guns ended up with them. Before someone asks why it was not returned I'll add that the company was brought out and then shut down as the factory site was worth a heck of a lot to developers it would appear it's now another Supermarket and part of the plot has a Muslim School on it Oh dear what a shame as if we really needed another poxy supermarket

It cost £275 new and the price of Bob's work and shipping back which was a lot less than Riflecraft were quoting. Oh they do good work but not the work I wanted it seems ........... Pity as they are close enough to drive down there whilst Bob is too far a way to do that easily.. However I have another project in the pipeline and will contact riflecraft and see what they have to say about it as it involves a new barrel

Your problem was you used Riflecraft! Enough said!

I take it you don't like them then now if you read it again you'll notice I only spoke to them the work was done by Bob Harvey an old time gunsmith and gunmaker .

 

[Hales Smut]

Having made up a custom rifle will be a pleasure on himself . There certainly will be a lot of fun owning and shooting it .
I do like a lot the classic actions like the mauser 98 or winchester with claw controlled feeding . This in a light MPI stock and a short 20/22 inch fluted barrel , must make a tremendous stalking rifle .

The first question , what will the rifle be used for ? Deer ? Or also foxes ?
What accuracy do you want ? For deer I think about practical hunting accuracy ( PHA ) . If you have a rifle which can put 3 bullets in about 1 1/4 icnh at 100 meters , I think this is more than acceptable for shooting deer on the shoulder at any practical range . Is it worth spending maybe 500/600 or more pounds extra to get a 3/4 inch grouping ?????
Rifles like the tikka t3 , Browning A and X bolt , Remington , Blaser R93 ..... are mostly capable of shooting PHA groups with quality factory ammo .
What can you want more . Point the rifle in the right direction and you have a dead annimal . What else do yo want .
Why paying a lot more for no real advantage ? I've seen discussions on reloading about gaining 1/4 inch . I never understood why .

 

[wraith]

Looks like there are well and truly two camps when it comes to customs! Accuracy isn't everything though, and to me a well put together custom is always going to be more enjoyable to use than an off the peg gun

Thanks for all your thoughts (including wraith - although I'm not actually sure I can understand much of what was written )

dislexia is a curse i suffer from word blindnes so posts may well seam mixed up etc i hope that most people get the jist of what im triying to put over in my posts my comments on custom jobs was this spending 3000pounds on bits put together by a gun smith do not mean you have a better shooting gun than a factorey off the shelf job yes i have a remington vssf and to date has acounted for lots of foxes and roe deer it never cost me 3000pounds it shoots well dont miss much with it using standard amuniton fedderal 55g never had a roe deer get back up with remington acutip bug hole groups at distances you would not shoot game with but vermin ie fox out to well over 300yards no problem what more do i want in a fox /deer gun it has a h/s carbon fibre reinforced fully aluminium bedded stock in grey marbeling a fully floated flutted heavey barrel is very smoth loading unloading holds 6rounds and is a peach to shoot have a tikka t3 supper varmint as well stock is not pillar bedded not flutted is not as good lookng as the remington shoots well for what it is but could not taik a standing shot with it its a biypod gun the remington stand sit fills all the slots for me now its not that i cant afford a custom gun i have 5000pounds worth of night vision scope on one gun so think i could have eney gun thats out there why dont i have a custom when a remington tikka can do the same job as a custom i see no point in it sorrey lads if you can shoot you can shoot eney thing but a custom job will not make you a better shot and i think this is a sales gimik by a lot of custom shops to get you to part with your money

 

[finnbear270]

Might be a little like saying a race car driver in a home prepped job has as much chance of winning a 24hr Le Mans race as a driver with the full backing of a works team with a top flight motor. 8)

 

[wraith]

fiinbear i get your point yes a works team on a race car is going to out perform the standard car they pump milions in to development in engine development so you have a valid point extracting energey for top speed etc is benefical if the driver can do his bit / but in the real world a stock is a stock it onley holds the acton the acton no mater what it manufactured from holds the barrel and trigger unit now my point is a stock acton barel trigger all put together by a custom shop all do the same thing that the manufacturer at remington do they all bolt weld screw things parts together to asemble a gun so why should a custom gun shoot better ok your next comment is they taike more care when asembling the custom gun so its going to shoot better yes and know every gun has to be asembled by both partes custom and manufacture to seartain limmits i dont beleve that honing a bolt or removing 1 tho of head space or fitting a shilen barel will not garente you a gun that out shoots a run of the mill factorey gun hell i can recrown my barrel with nothing more than a ball bering and valve paste same as the bolt bit of grinding paste back and forth there you go beding some plastick mettal jobs a good un custom job on the cheep its the man behind the gun that counts not the gun spend twice as much on your scope than on your gun walk little look offten youl not go far rong with that advise

 

[finnbear270]

Let's go to a hypothetical situation here, I have a choice of two rifles to pass on to you for free, they are for arguments sake, both the same calibre (your favourite), one is a hand crafted / blue printed Remington, the other, a stock off the shelf Remmy, which one will you take away with you?.

 

[wraith]

Let's go to a hypothetical situation here, I have a choice of two rifles to pass on to you for free, they are for arguments sake, both the same calibre (your favourite), one is a hand crafted / blue printed Remington, the other, a stock off the shelf Remmy, which one will you take away with you?.

the custom as its free never look a gift horse in the mouth still wont garente it shoots better just becose it looks better i may be dislexik but i aint daft where do i colect the gun from nice of finnbear to offer me a new gun for free / now what is hypothetical / now its not ethical to offer a new gun to me for free so you keep it bud il stick with what iv got a remington 700vssf tack driver l.0.l

 

[GP1]

We will see wraith when you come down to Norfolk with your .243 tikka how good the off the shelf rifle is compared to a .243 Remmington custom job

 

[finnbear270]

Time I left the building I think!

 

[Sariel]

Hi Wraith,

Im confused.... On one hand you dont seem to understand or fail to admit that superioir components assembled by a master craftsman = superior accuracy in a firearm, yet you have 5k worth of night vision?

Instead of a Kite Mk4 or whatever you have why didnt you go cheap on that? as by you general modus operandi that would have surley given you the same results!!!!

 

[Sariel]

Wraith,

After posting I have just re read you second from last post, i should have just said your talking a load of shite. Honestly.

 

[MarkH]

I suppose how much one wants to pay to have a custom rifle is just a lifestyle choice. Most rifles are more accurate than their owners hence bench-rest shooting where you eliminate as much of the owner as possible with sandbags etc etc.
We have similar things in triathlon where 40 something pot-bellied blokes buy state of the art carbon racing bike @ £8000. The bottle cages weigh 19gm and cost £120. The practical man would say it is more cost effective to dump the 14llbs of fat from the waistline than spent £8000 dropping 8llbs off the bike. I love overtaking these guys 20 minutes into the race.

If however I could afford one of these bike I would buy one just to admire and polish but I don't think it would make me a better cyclist, that comes with training and practice only.

Mark