Dead fox cub photos - PR?

[Keith Edmunds]

So, I will expect a barrage of strong opinions but.......over the past few days there has been photos of dead fox cubs up at the top of the stalking directory home page. Now, I do as much as I can to educate family and friends regarding fieldsports but there are some aspects that are really hard to justify to the uninitiated or those who have very little access to the 'real' countryside.

Personally I find the shooting of cubs distasteful and a vixen in milk even more so - if the cubs are left to starve. However, that is just a personal opinion and I do not have any responsibility regarding predator control and I would imagine those that do would look at it from a completely different perspective - I appreciate that.

Either way, when we could have potential newbies looking in and maybe family members peering over the shoulder, I am wondering if we should be a little careful about those images that could create the wrong first impression?

 

[finnbear270]

Keith, We are between a rock & a hard place with pics, there are those on here who constantly clamour for pics of this & that, (No pic , it didn't happen) etc, personally I think the foxing pics should be kept off the headline as it is after all a Deer stalking site, foxing pics should in my view be kept in their sub forum.

 

[Tim.243]

So, I will expect a barrage of strong opinions but.......over the past few days there has been photos of dead fox cubs up at the top of the stalking directory home page. Now, I do as much as I can to educate family and friends regarding fieldsports but there are some aspects that are really hard to justify to the uninitiated or those who have very little access to the 'real' countryside.

Personally I find the shooting of cubs distasteful and a vixen in milk even more so - if the cubs are left to starve. However, that is just a personal opinion and I do not have any responsibility regarding predator control and I would imagine those that do would look at it from a completely different perspective - I appreciate that.

Either way, when we could have potential newbies looking in and maybe family members peering over the shoulder, I am wondering if we should be a little careful about those images that could create the wrong first impression?

In the news this morning were pictures of flattened cities in the middle east body bags of dead children,

A nutter running around with a makeshift flamethrower in the US 6 people in hospital (this morning)

Soft social workers too weak with any recommendations' dealing with people going on to kill.

Then the other side of the coin people still complaining about handing in their pistols to shoot bits of paper and making their .22 look like an AR15

What people are interested in.
164 replies about suburban fox
108 replies about a pointed knife
4 replies to a nice Roe buck stalk.

 

[Julian S]

We have to box clever these days, cant ignore PR anymore. Antis are everywhere so need to promote a good image and pics like that cant help our cause.

 

[bluesako]

ive shot fox for nigh on 40 years, and would never shoot cubs or milky vixens, ive had cubs run up to me, lifes hard enough for these little uns, and i dont like the pics on the main page

 

[Tim.243]

We have to box clever these days, cant ignore PR anymore. Antis are everywhere so need to promote a good image and pics like that cant help our cause.

Box clever lol
The up and coming youth (come from moden parents) are not interested in fox cubs just how many phones they can steal

 

[HonestJohn]

I personally find the pictures of shot game distasteful, most are done to show off a custom built rifle or their equipment.

Fox cubs, well, it can’t be long until the SD features in various rags looking for news.

There are antis on here as members, and they pretend to be buyers and then back out after they have obtained personal details/name/bank for payment, then target them.

I have had this recently, and I have to say, it’s now where I want to see their ID or address or SGC or FAC before sending my details


I like the SD because it gives me likeminded people to talk to, have a moan, poke a bit of fun, sell surplus things, find things I need, and rarely, but does happen, make friends. Also good for industry updates/legal, but…it’s feeling a bit risky now, esp with FAC renewals requiring to know all your social
Media names - I’ve cut all ties online apart from SD, because you just never know.

As for pictures, I think the moderators should have guidelines or best practice, because it’s the sort of thing that can be used against the shooting community, very easily indeed

 

[Malxwal]

There are simply no good pictures of dead animals.

 

[Julian S]

Box clever lol
The up and coming youth (come from moden parents) are not interested in fox cubs just how many phones they can steal

In that case why are they trying to restrict our sport all the time ? its not the youngsters that do it but the older ones, so we DO NEED not to give the public ammo against us

 

[VSS]

There are simply no good pictures of dead animals.

There are. The ones that show good butchery skills and top-quality, well presented meals.
Those pictures are generally very well received on social media platforms.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want to post pics of animals you've shot, post a sequence of photos that show the whole process field to plate, preferably starting with the final end product (the plated meal) and working backwards to a tasteful and respectful pic of the dead animal.

Good PR is good for us.
Bad PR is not.
We have to tell a good story. It's not just about avoiding criticism from "antis". It's about normalising the shooting and eating of game in today's society. And "trophy" style photos won't do that.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Here's my irony and inconsistency - I actually don't mind tasteful, respectful photos of shot game at all, I quite like the idea of the 'last bite' and a Serbian friend of mine blows a tune on his horn as a mark of respect over a shot beast. In fact I prefer to see a photo of a deer, cleaned-up a bit and positioned nicely. I know, dead is dead and it makes no logical sense.

 

[Tim.243]

ive shot fox for nigh on 40 years, and would never shoot cubs or milky vixens, ive had cubs run up to me, lifes hard enough for these little uns, and i dont like the pics on the main page

With respect people shoot pigeons/rabbits/corvids under crop protection still feeding young so they will have a hard time,
there was 350+ pigeons moved to a safe spot (right by the road and house) so don't shoot the 427 we have shot close that number will be around 800 with a good number nesting all year around with mild weather.
Rabbits have a number of young you can't/won't be checking in the scope she is a milky doe.

 

[Mike1979]

Surely isnt this the point of these types of forums...so that people who shoot can share their "activities" with other like minded people?

I find it strange when people object to killing fox cubs (I agree on the point about milky vixens but there are times where that cant be helped). Foxes are a pest and can cause huge amounts of damage so need managing. Why is shooting a cub worse then shooting an adult? Is it because they are easier to shoot ...in which case maybe we should only shoot adults over 250 yards to make it more challenging? Its pest control not sport after all...and to be fair most of it is confined to posts like "Out last night" to avoid the "I wouldnt shoot cubs comments" etc.

Just my opinion

 

[finnbear270]

Surely isnt this the point of these types of forums...so that people who shoot can share their "activities" with other like minded people?

I find it strange when people object to killing fox cubs (I agree on the point about milky vixens but there are times where that cant be helped). Foxes are a pest and can cause huge amounts of damage so need managing. Why is shooting a cub worse then shooting an adult? Is it because they are easier to shoot ...in which case maybe we should only shoot adults over 250 yards to make it more challenging? Its pest control not sport after all...and to be fair most of it is confined to posts like "Out last night" to avoid the "I wouldnt shoot cubs comments" etc.

Just my opinion

The thrust of the post is about how the anti lot will see it, and weaponise the pics to their advantage, So to help protect what we do we need to consider the downsides.

 

[Tim.243]

In that case why are they trying to restrict our sport all the time ? its not the youngsters that do it but the older ones, so we DO NEED not to give the public ammo against us

What is higher on you list kids running around with machetes/stabbing each other (a matter of public safety) or a few pictures of dead foxes?
They will have parents with non and an anti position of dead fox cubs.

 

[WalkedUp]

I can appreciate the bravery to post on this subject and I can see both sides. Promoting viral pest control versus PR awareness or sensitivity.

I have only been shooting for 25 years, when I first shot a fox I became a pariah for vulpecide. For people who grew up hunting the shooting of Charlie is utterly unsporting.

We shoot milky vixens and cubs, same as the fox hunts milky does and kits, or ground nesting birds. I also shoot woodpigeon (they nest all year) and corvids in the summer.

I caused havoc on my family WhatsApp group when my weak-stomached and over dramatic half-sister had a strop over my pictures of a dead baby deer (a mature Muntjac buck). I compromised and agreed not to send pictures of game, it is their loss.

 

[Tim.243]

Surely isnt this the point of these types of forums...so that people who shoot can share their "activities" with other like minded people?

I find it strange when people object to killing fox cubs (I agree on the point about milky vixens but there are times where that cant be helped). Foxes are a pest and can cause huge amounts of damage so need managing. Why is shooting a cub worse then shooting an adult? Is it because they are easier to shoot ...in which case maybe we should only shoot adults over 250 yards to make it more challenging? Its pest control not sport after all...and to be fair most of it is confined to posts like "Out last night" to avoid the "I wouldnt shoot cubs comments" etc.

Just my opinion

The input back slapping is key to that Mike

 

[Mike1979]

The thrust of the post is about how the anti lot will see it, and weaponise the pics to their advantage, So to help protect what we do we need to consider the downsides.

Agreed to a point but we are already in the minority so maybe we shouldnt talk about killing animals at all and then we dont give anybody any ammunition? I struggle with the concept that a picture of a dead cub is any worse then a picture of a dead adult...but thats from a rational viewpoint of someone who knows what they are talking about and not an anti ....... I see the objections...just sick of the PC nonsense...

 

[Tim.243]

Here's my irony and inconsistency - I actually don't mind tasteful, respectful photos of shot game at all, I quite like the idea of the 'last bite' and a Serbian friend of mine blows a tune on his horn as a mark of respect over a shot beast. In fact I prefer to see a photo of a deer, cleaned-up a bit and positioned nicely. I know, dead is dead and it makes no logical sense.

How do you make the choice with muntjac does Keith as at last light it is 50/50 she has just given birth or pregnant?
All along from Essex to Lincoln they are in high numbers.

 

[FrenchieBoy]

Keith, We are between a rock & a hard place with pics, there are those on here who constantly clamour for pics of this & that, (No pic , it didn't happen) etc, personally I think the foxing pics should be kept off the headline as it is after all a Deer stalking site, foxing pics should in my view be kept in their sub forum.

I couldn't agree more with this reply. When I was on PW there were so many times I was told that if i didn't show a picture of what I had shot then it wasn't worth posting or it was Bull Sh*t. I believe that the general public do need "educating" about the real need for Vermin Control but so many times on forums like this we are caught between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea!
Personally I never found the need to photograph every animal I shot and killed while I was shooting, but everyone to their own and I'm really not sure that we will ever find a definitive answer to the point/question of using photos to show the need for vermin control situations as you/we will always have antis going out of their way to find something to complain about !
To be quite honest I don't know the answer, but crack on with what you are doing as long as you are doing it legally!