Deeply Deeply Sad

[Shootist]

In the first place, I voted to join the Common Market. I would vote to remain in the Common Market. I did not join the United States of Europe (USE) and I voted to leave.

In the second, you know all those MEPs we have. The ones that make the EU laws, and can revoke those laws? That's the ones. Except they don't make any laws or revoke any because they cannot. EU laws are directives handed down by anonymous, unelected, bureaucrats. MEPs decide nothing.

In the third, the allegations of racism really get my goat. I do not like that Halal slaughter is accepted in this country for fear of losing the Muslim vote. It is incredibly cruel and unnecessary. So is Kosher slaughter. Both are done to bleed the animal out. The same principle as bow hunting, which, oddly enough, is illegal in the UK (Personally, I'm glad it is). I also have long disliked that Sikhs are allowed to wear a turban instead of a crash helmet when riding a motorbike. I might feel different if their religion required them to ride motorcycles on a weekly basis but it does not. At the very least they should have an extra insurance policy to cover medical treatment for head injuries, but no.

Do any of these things make me a racist? I think that they do not, but others will no doubt have be down as a card carrying member of the BNP (I'm not). I'd rather see this country broke and free rather than a wealthy slave state.

Some people worry about what Scotland might do. In the last general election the SNP got 1,454,436 votes which gave them 59 MPs in the British parliament. UKIP got 3,881,099 votes and got just one MP. Something is wrong with our voting system. And why, when there was much reference to Little Englanders by the remainers pre referendum, is there now not a single reference to Little Scotlanders? They can go for me.

 

[Whitebeard]

The Maastricht Treaty, which created the EU, set limits on government spending and debt as a percentage of GDP and economic growth. One reason the EU fell apart is that Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and others violated the agreement, killing their economies with taxes and inflation. Young people wanted to leave and go to London, Germany, or anywhere in the UK to find a career.

The other reason the EU fell apart is that those who ran it, from top dogs to the desk bureaucrats, tried to expand its power - and their power - beyond its charter, into a superstate answering to no citizens. These people have a mentality which does not really respect Constitutions and treaties. Those are obstacles to ignore or navigate around. They really believe in the rule of man, not the rule of law. And it is the rule of law which built the huge advances of Western Civilization in such a short period of time. You cannot have peace and prosperity under governments which treat people differently based on changing fashion or personal cronyism - and that is what the modern socialist pseudo-democracies are, a form of monarchy by committee.

Pretty good for a Yank In fact very eloquently described Southern, you actually have a better grasp of the situation then the majority of my own countryman!!

Ian.

 

[rodp]

Three day week service, nothing at weekends!

David.

Pah, luxury, here it's a 15 minute walk to the local shopping mall and when I get there it's only got 300 shops

 

[Alantoo]

What's a bus

Pah, luxury, here it's a 15 minute walk to the local shopping mall and when I get there it's only got 300 shops

What's a shopping mall?

 

[rodp]

What's a shopping mall?

Really ??

 

[Psyxologos]

Really, well sorry but it doesn't and shouldn't work like that.
We had a referendum, we all had plenty of time to make our minds up before we voted.
Depending which way you voted your either 'won' or 'lost', now is the time to deal with it, or get used to it.
Another vote would neither be fair to those who have already voted, neither would it be democratic.

Neil.

agreed. But what happens when, like it has in this occasion, it turns out that the winning side won on lies which they admitted only hours after winning?

 

[Hayduke]

PsyX' most here don't like to talk about that, it's ok to praise faridge and (dis)UKIP, blame it on Muslims, ISIS and halal kebabs though. Certainly don't mention the £350m due to the NHS, economic turmoil, strength of the pound (sic), or being unable to fix migration, job losses, our financial institutions loss of their EU trading passport, being shut out of the single market etc. Because it's all worth it and we are going to fill the void by trading with Oz and NZ thousands of miles away.

 

[Alantoo]

Really ??

 

[Southern]

Pretty good for a Yank In fact very eloquently described Southern, you actually have a better grasp of the situation then the majority of my own countryman!!

Ian.

Yank!?! Good thing you added that happy face.

I am just old enough to remember the Common Market, the EEOC, and the sales pitch for the Maastricht Treaty... just like the old timers who remember how things actually were, not as the young people have been told as part of their "education". So the old timers decided, "Enough", and put the brakes on. We "Yanks" did the same by electing Reagan in 1980, and we are trying to do the same now.

It's not enough to just pause decay of civilized nations. Patriots have to pull the briars out of the garden, pile them up, and burn them. Leaving any part of a bad program is like a surgeon leaving part of a tumor.

 

[Sauer90]

Amazed at all the hand wringing and refusal to accept that the reality was a rejection of the insidious mission creep of the eu grandees, we simply did not want rule by the eu bureaucrats any longer.
All the immigration and hospital 'lies' bs is getting tiresome.

 

[User00014]

Well while all this waffle is going on article 50 has not yet been signed!

until the day it is signed WE the UK are still members of the EU will of the people or not.

i wouldn't mind wagering that article 50 is still not signed by Christmas 2017, in fact British politics being a load of Horlicks that it is, I'm fingers crossed for a U turn.

 

[tom308w]

agreed. But what happens when, like it has in this occasion, it turns out that the winning side won on lies which they admitted only hours after winning?

you must have seen all the **** from the remain campaign about wars people getting no food jobs gone ect ect ect all ******** the leave campaign probaly got twice as many votes as what the conservatives got at the last general election chin up and get on with it thats democracy

 

[Mr. Gain]

you must have seen all the **** from the remain campaign about wars people getting no food jobs gone ect ect ect all ******** the leave campaign probaly got twice as many votes as what the conservatives got at the last general election chin up and get on with it thats democracy

Remain scaremongering was based on hypotheses/projections. Leave claims about payments and immigration control were demonstrably untrue. Neither was an attractive strategy, but in this case lies proved to have more political traction than strategic analysis... hardly a first, I know!

 

[Psyxologos]

Well while all this waffle is going on article 50 has not yet been signed!

until the day it is signed WE the UK are still members of the EU will of the people or not.

i wouldn't mind wagering that article 50 is still not signed by Christmas 2017, in fact British politics being a load of Horlicks that it is, I'm fingers crossed for a U turn.

I am with you on that.

 

[Hayduke]

Amazed at all the hand wringing and refusal to accept that the reality was a rejection of the insidious mission creep of the eu grandees, we simply did not want rule by the eu bureaucrats any longer.
All the immigration and hospital 'lies' bs is getting tiresome.

Well stop whining, keep yer head in the sand and stick to your own land of milk and honey thread. Leavers **** the collective bed, gave us economic turmoil, more austerity, debt for our kids and delayed deficit reduction.

In greatest probability you have knackered the Union. Chuffed ?

Exactly what EU regs or bureaucracy so upsets leavers that it was worth this ? All we have had articulated here so far is some waffle about Irish lorrys overtaking UK lorrys on the Motorway and a few irksome radical mullahs we have struggled to deport which is more the fault of the ECHR not the EU.

 

[Alantoo]

Amazed at all the hand wringing and refusal to accept that the reality was a rejection of the insidious mission creep of the eu grandees, we simply did not want rule by the eu bureaucrats any longer.
All the immigration and hospital 'lies' bs is getting tiresome.

Unfortunately as has already been noted, you are not in a position to say "we". You can only speak for your own motives behind your vote to leave the EU. To assume all others who voted the same way did so for the same reason as yourself is wishful thinking.

I agree... I thought the emotive issues of the immigration and "new hospital every week" smokescreen was tiresome during the campaign. If it had been fought on "insidious mission creep of the eu grandees" It would have been a more quantifiable result. Nobody knows what the motives are behind others' votes, many were evidently not voting primarily against the EU mission creep, would that they were.

As it is, the discussion regarding further involvement in the terms of exit is a valid reflection of the wish to be no longer ruled by unelected bureaucrats whether in the EU or Whitehall. Given your Brexit vote reason, surely that is something of which you can approve?

Do you think that post referendum we should just now sit back and revert to leaving it to the bureaucrats to organise our future or continue the discussion, and maybe with a vote, influence the outcome?

How about a discussion on the inequalities of our voting system? Introduce a decent version of PR where the number of MPs elected actually reflect the mood of the electorate for once? At least that would mean that our future legislation would be based on cooperation rather than petty party dogma of the the party that 60% voted against as we have at the moment.

Why exclude yourself from the handwringing? Why stop now?

Alan

 

[JAYB]

What I did not realise until I read this thread is that the Brexit vote told lies and the remain voters were squeaky clean and spoke only the truth. Also that those that voted for Brexit were gullible enough to believe everything they were told and incapable of making up their own minds, I don't think so. So now we get an attempt to get a reversal, never ending delay to article 50 and Christ knows what else by calling for a referendum on every decision that is made henceforth, ridiculous. The people have voted, the decision made the elected Government, or at least a modified version from within it's (elected) ranks now has to implement the mandate given to them.

Maybe the millions saved on having further pointless referendums could be put to good causes, the NHS springs to mind

John

 

[Hornet 6]

I don't follow the logic. We would be voting based on real issues rather than the flummery of the campaigns.

Snip

Well I voted on real issues, nothing to do with the campaign arguments.
If anyone voted based on the sort of crap that has been all over the media then I'm sorry for them.
Although if they were that easily led then in future they should maybe not be able to vote at all.

Neil.

 

[Alantoo]

What I did not realise until I read this thread is that the Brexit vote told lies and the remain voters were squeaky clean and spoke only the truth. Also that those that voted for Brexit were gullible enough to believe everything they were told and incapable of making up their own minds, I don't think so. So now we get an attempt to get a reversal, never ending delay to article 50 and Christ knows what else by calling for a referendum on every decision that is made henceforth, ridiculous. The people have voted, the decision made the elected Government, or at least a modified version from within it's (elected) ranks now has to implement the mandate given to them.

Maybe the millions saved on having further pointless referendums could be put to good causes, the NHS springs to mind

John

Are you sure that the referendum was pointless?

The people have voted against the advice of the elected Government, and now you want to accept whatever the modified elected Government negotiate, without any further discussion or involvement?

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

snip...
Although if they were that easily led then in future they should maybe not be able to vote at all.

Neil.

Bit late now, they have already voted!

Alan