Deeply Deeply Sad

[Kalahari]

The trouble with many of the comments being made by remainers is they don't appear to understand how undemocratically they are behaving. Living in Wales we had a referendum on devolution which went through on a whisker, we weren't allowed a re-run. We didn't have a re-run on PR which was a blow to people who believe in it. Get over it and get on with it. It won't be the end of the world. By the way before anybody starts complaining about the lies told by the "other side" remember:
Q. How do you tell if a politician is lying?
A. Their lips move.

David.

 

[User00014]

There is nothing in law that states that the government has to take notice of the public vote to leave!

David Cameron has boxed cleaver here, he has resigned and left it to the prime PM to either sign article 50 and probably destroy their political career and possibly UK or not to sign and do what's best for the country (in my opinion) and re build the bridge and get or country financially and politically on track where it should be!

 

[User00014]

The trouble with many of the comments being made by remainers is they don't appear to understand how undemocratically they are behaving. Living in Wales we had a referendum on devolution which went through on a whisker, we weren't allowed a re-run. We didn't have a re-run on PR which was a blow to people who believe in it. Get over it and get on with it. It won't be the end of the world. By the way before anybody starts complaining about the lies told by the "other side" remember:
Q. How do you tell if a politician is lying?
A. Their lips move.

David.

The best post I've read yet!

 

[Hornet 6]

Bit late now, they have already voted!

Alan

How do you know, or are you privy to the reasons everyone voted as they did ?

Neil.

 

[african jack]

And the biggest lie of the campaign WAS David Cameron the day after the referendum if the people vote to leave I will be on my way to Europe with article 50 in my hand

 

[Sauer90]

<snip>

In greatest probability you have saved the Union. Chuffed ? (fixed it for you).

<snip>

Chuffed? Absolutely.
Do I give a flying f what you think? Absolutely not
And as to the bureaucracy plainly you have no understanding of how it works, you want to use a mirror to check for 'head in the sand'.

 

[JockStalk]

After the referendum:
1) the country is divided
2) racial hatred is on the rise
3) those who didn't win the vote voice that they want a second referendum/ someway of ignoring the democratic result

Perhaps if folks had paid more attention to all that has happened in Scotland since 2014 they would have been better prepared.

 

[JAYB]

Are you sure that the referendum was pointless?

The people have voted against the advice of the elected Government, and now you want to accept whatever the modified elected Government negotiate, without any further discussion or involvement?

Alan

THE referendum was not pointless, and now I am content to let the elected Government get on with carrying out the wishes of the public, as per the recent democratic process. The opposition, once it has sorted itself out, will keep the Government right as will dissenting voices within the Conservative party. The people voted after listening to the advice of the Government, not all of the Government, and made their decision. It does not need a committee meeting every time to see if we need a referendum to accept various proposals, otherwise it will become just as regulated and expensive as the EU. If you do not like the way the present Government does things than you can vote them out at the next general election, democratically just like the referendum.

The decision has been made, get over it and move on .

John

 

[User00025]

Chuffed? Absolutely.
Do I give a flying f what you think? Absolutely not
And as to the bureaucracy plainly you have no understanding of how it works, you want to use a mirror to check for 'head in the sand'.

+1 And Hayduke if you don't like the result get over it. Try living somewhere else where they value your sort of opinions with a 9mm in the back of the head. Particularly future members of the EU. You really just don't know how lucky you are, never wanting for food,free NHS,probably own a car, go stalking, what sort of animal are you, certainly not a good person to live in my country. Wouldn't mind swapping you for a couple of Europeans any day of the week,at least they would be pleased and thankful to be here.

 

[ciscokid]

I think some people have not been reading the news from Brussells.
J C Juncker wants us out , and what he wants ,he gets, in true EU democratic style.
we are out because the EU council says so.
Even if we don't invoke article 50 , I bet the council we'll force us out anyway.

 

[Pine Marten]

One of the big problems about the divisions in society, and is not recognised by the BBC in particular, the media and the "metropolitan elite" as they see themselves is that on the last set of figures I was able to obtain central government allocates and extra £132 to every man woman and child who lives in major cities compared to those living in minor towns or the rural environment. I know PM goes stalking by public transport (and this isn't a dig at him) but I can't even go anywhere by public transport unless I undertake a two mile walk first and then there is one bus per day. People who live in cities appear to have no comprehension on how they appear to be feather bedded to many people who live and work outside these areas. Please don't advocate moving as many of them live there so your food arrives in the supermarket. It grieves me to see the arrogance of city dwellers who make comments about the stupid who voted out when they have no concept of some of the problems and inequalities.

David.

David, you're absolutely right, successive UK government have been as indifferent to the situation of rural areas as they are to that of deprived former industrial urban ones. The lack of public transport in particular has dire social consequences. Never mind the lack of jobs, it makes it harder to get to what jobs may exist. In particular if you're starting out in life, it makes the cost of entry into the job market huge, and running a car takes out a very significant chunk of income. I don't have a car initially because of circumstances and choice (didn't need one, didn't want one), but now of course I couldn't afford one. Public transport is a very significant chunk of the cost of working, but it's still a lot less than running a car would be.

Just because we've suddenly been promoted to "metropolitan elite" (it doesn't feel that way, surely the "elite" is supposed to have it easy and its' own way, no?), doesn't mean we don't recognise legitimate grievances from others. I just don't think that chronic underinvestment in rural public services is because of the EU. I mean Agriculture isn't even a full ministerial portfolio anymore. Given how much money the EU throws at it, you'd think it would be worth doing the job properly (whole other can of worms, I know).

For the record, I've never accepted artificial barriers like having to chose between being urban or rural. At school I didn't accept having to choose arts or science. Or indeed being British or French, or European. Or rightwing or leftwing. All of those artificial barriers are just ways of deliberately closing one's mind and refusing to see other points of view. None of them are mutually exclusive. It doesn't mean we all arrive at the same conclusions, but there's no reason city folk can't recognise the serious difficulties faced by those in rural areas.

 

[Alantoo]

THE referendum was not pointless, and now I am content to let the elected Government get on with carrying out the wishes of the public, as per the recent democratic process. The opposition, once it has sorted itself out, will keep the Government right as will dissenting voices within the Conservative party. The people voted after listening to the advice of the Government, not all of the Government, and made their decision. It does not need a committee meeting every time to see if we need a referendum to accept various proposals, otherwise it will become just as regulated and expensive as the EU. If you do not like the way the present Government does things than you can vote them out at the next general election, democratically just like the referendum.

The decision has been made, get over it and move on .

John

I must have misunderstood your "pointless referendum" description

As far as I am concerned I am over the referendum result and moving on. But that does not mean we should take no further interest in the situation or stop discussing the way forward from here now that we are leaving the EU.

I managed to vote against the majority decision on both the referendum to leave the Common Market and the one to leave the EU. The sky has yet to fall as a result of either event!

Had we be given the chance to vote improve the current constitution of the EU in order to make it more responsive to its members and less bureaucratic or even to revert to an open trade agreement I would have done. The choice we were given was neither of these...it was UK in or out. As we are still trying to deal with the fallout of the 2008 banking crisis I reckoned on balance we were better off with the known instability than an unknown one.

Having voted assiduously in every general election for the last 45 odd years and always ended up with the majority of the electorate who voted against the elected Government, I do not share your optimism that I can influence the direction of our policies under our current voting system.

I am not a party political animal...I have always voted for PR so that we all can have a say in the direction our country goes. Which is my simplistic definition of a democracy.

Alan

 

[Greymaster]

I must have misunderstood your "pointless referendum" description

As far as I am concerned I am over the referendum result and moving on. But that does not mean we should take no further interest in the situation or stop discussing the way forward from here now that we are leaving the EU.

I managed to vote against the majority decision on both the referendum to leave the Common Market and the one to leave the EU. The sky has yet to fall as a result of either event!

Had we be given the chance to vote improve the current constitution of the EU in order to make it more responsive to its members and less bureaucratic or even to revert to an open trade agreement I would have done. The choice we were given was neither of these...it was UK in or out. As we are still trying to deal with the fallout of the 2008 banking crisis I reckoned on balance we were better off with the known instability than an unknown one.

Having voted assiduously in every general election for the last 45 odd years and always ended up with the majority of the electorate who voted against the elected Government, I do not share your optimism that I can influence the direction of our policies under our current voting system.

I am not a party political animal...I have always voted for PR so that we all can have a say in the direction our country goes. Which is my simplistic definition of a democracy.

Alan

But you have never ever voted to elect the EU Commission, and that institution is manned by technocrats and appointees.

 

[Greymaster]

Unfortunately as has already been noted, you are not in a position to say "we". You can only speak for your own motives behind your vote to leave the EU. To assume all others who voted the same way did so for the same reason as yourself is wishful thinking.

I agree... I thought the emotive issues of the immigration and "new hospital every week" smokescreen was tiresome during the campaign. If it had been fought on "insidious mission creep of the eu grandees" It would have been a more quantifiable result. Nobody knows what the motives are behind others' votes, many were evidently not voting primarily against the EU mission creep, would that they were.

As it is, the discussion regarding further involvement in the terms of exit is a valid reflection of the wish to be no longer ruled by unelected bureaucrats whether in the EU or Whitehall. Given your Brexit vote reason, surely that is something of which you can approve?

Do you think that post referendum we should just now sit back and revert to leaving it to the bureaucrats to organise our future or continue the discussion, and maybe with a vote, influence the outcome?

How about a discussion on the inequalities of our voting system? Introduce a decent version of PR where the number of MPs elected actually reflect the mood of the electorate for once? At least that would mean that our future legislation would be based on cooperation rather than petty party dogma of the the party that 60% voted against as we have at the moment.

Why exclude yourself from the handwringing? Why stop now?

Alan

As for the SNP, if they want laws in Scotland to be directed by the EU Commission, the do not need to win independence and then immediately cede their new found sovereignty to the EU, they can stay in the United Kingdom and simply parrot the EU directives into Scots law, provided they have devolved competence to do so.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Good news chaps BoJo was born in New York City so he could run against Trump???????

 

[digger9523]

Well stop whining, keep yer head in the sand and stick to your own land of milk and honey thread. Leavers **** the collective bed, gave us economic turmoil, more austerity, debt for our kids and delayed deficit reduction.

In greatest probability you have knackered the Union. Chuffed ?

Exactly what EU regs or bureaucracy so upsets leavers that it was worth this ? All we have had articulated here so far is some waffle about Irish lorrys overtaking UK lorrys on the Motorway and a few irksome radical mullahs we have struggled to deport which is more the fault of the ECHR not the EU.

You need to suck it up and get on with it son. You're constant whining is as feeble as an old woman's hand shake.

Surely you'd be far better off going back to work and trying to earn some last minute cash before the world is destroyed in the apocalypse you're predicting, instead of wasting your metaphoric breath on here all day.....

 

[Alantoo]

But you have never ever voted to elect the EU Commission, and that institution is manned by technocrats and appointees.

It is true I never voted for the EU commission or indeed the UK government that agreed to it being set up.

But we (the UK electorate) elected that UK Government that contributed to the talks and approved it on our behalf.

As I said elsewhere, I have never been fortunate to have my general election vote represented by an MP in Parliament so I certainly cannot be held responsible!

Alan

 

[Highlandsjohn]

You need to suck it up and get on with it son. You're constant whining is as feeble as an old woman's hand shake.

Surely you'd be far better off going back to work and trying to earn some last minute cash before the world is destroyed in the apocalypse you're predicting, instead of wasting your metaphoric breath on here all day.....

Promised myself to give these threads up, but that is priceless... and great advice...

 

[african jack]

He might then be able to go to bed with the lights off and not pull the covers over his head and not be afraid of the bogeyman

You need to suck it up and get on with it son. You're constant whining is as feeble as an old woman's hand shake.

Surely you'd be far better off going back to work and trying to earn some last minute cash before the world is destroyed in the apocalypse you're predicting, instead of wasting your metaphoric breath on here all day.....

 

[tikka_madras]

I would generally echo this.

I do live out in the country, but so far the only real vitriol I've experienced post-Brexit is on here, on Facebook, and on other social media. Strangely nearly all of these carry some degree of anonymity, which I fear lets people say things online that they would never say face-to-face.

It will be interesting to visit London tomorrow and see how things are there, but out here in the countryside you'd barely know there had been a referendum. Would that were true.

What seems to have happened is that, as with many such issues, some strongly held views have suddenly been brought into stark relief, pitching parents against children, young against old, friend against friend, and town against country.

In one of the papers today they said the country has suffered a collective nervous breakdown, and I'm beginning to think they are right. Someone else has coined the phrase "Brexhaustion". None of this is helped by a media that is thirsty for dissent, keen to expose anger, and all too willing to whip up a storm.

41 people were murdered yesterday in the explosion at Ataturk airport in Istanbul - an airport, a country, and a people I very happily visit for work several times each year. I have colleagues working there whose names I have trouble spelling but whose friendship I cherish. How must they feel seeing reports of that real human tragedy pushed off the front pages by the petty political machinations of a community they were eager to join? When we should be uniting in condemning the perpetrators of this atrocity we are instead condemning our fellow countrymen.

In the spirit of this, my sincere apologies to all those I've wound up, insulted, or otherwise caused to raise their eyebrows and spit out their tea in the course of the last week. I'll try to keep things in perspective from now on.

Thank Heavens that I'll soon be heading up North to get away from the TV, radio and Internet, and pick up a rod or camera rather than a keyboard.

Well said