Different make of cases with same load & bullet what effect ?

[charlieboy-shooter]

See it shoot it is right, I am a novice. Hence the my initial post and then subsequent questions. can someone please respond to post 25. The thread has gone of topic and by all means carry on as it's quiet enjoyable but I'm just trying to makesure I got things right. Or do I need to start another thread ???

 

[roebuck223]

hi
made my own bullets over 30 years shot thousands of deer with whatever cases i have at the time has never made any differance up to 200 hundred yards

 

[Paul at Fechan]

All I can say Charlieboy is if your ammo is made properly following guidance with a moderate charge then you will produce a fine round that serve you well in any case you choose to load. The normal shooter would never need to know the case type during or after the shot because a well made round is just that and a true shot would always deliver. Live quarry in the field is not the same as paper and bench rests.

 

[Simjim33]

My apologies Charlieboy!

As Paul says if you keep your charges moderate then you should never have a problem. There should be accuracy nodes through out the operating PSI of your rifle.

It may not be the intended purpose of the lee factory crimp die. But I have found that it will help give a more constant and robust round.

But!
I wouldn't listen to me I only have 2 years experience reloading.

How ever, if you PM Muir. I am sure he will freely give his advise. Muir HAS got experience in internal ballistics. You can learn more from him with one PM than a whole real of cyber paper written by others on this forum.

SISI. Thanks for your pm. I have responded.
Is there a range near you that can be used for our little challenge?
I see why you would be unwilling to make that kind of trip from Derbyshire. If we can move the event closer to you I'm sure we would get more spectators and raise a bit more money for good causes!

 

[Tackleberry270]

So is this a fair conclusion from all the answers ?

Ideally to get the safest, very best performance & accuracy I would, use only one make of brass preferably the same batch, but I may use different makes of brass as long as I do not overcharge the case to exceed maximum pressure. So as I do not know how any of my cases will perform relative to pressure and one may ultimately be better than another, to work out which one/s is the best I'm thinking. As long as I say

1) Use the Hodgdon charge information and from this
​2) Decide on my preferred bullet weight (Gr) and powder.
3) Resize several of each different makes of brass, but trim all to the same length, say 0.010" below max case length.
4) using the Hodgdon, starting load powder grains weights ( or something very near the starting charge) load all the cartridges.
5) Seat all bullets to the C.O.L stated in the Hodgdon info.
6) Fire bullets, noting which is which. See if there is a noticeable difference in grouping.
7) Check used cases for signs of excessive pressure. Discard that make if so.
8) If one make stands out then proceed with this make maybe increasing load weight slightly to see if group improves or carry on with different makes,

As long as I stay away from stated maximum load. Once I get a grouping I am satisfied with and the fired case shows no signs of stress. Either stop at that (may be using more than 1 make or case but also may have discounted a certain make/s.)
9) Reload only these cases there after i.e the ones which give me the best consistency.

Some of the above may sound simplistic or stupid but as I have only fired factory loads and do not know how accurate development, home loads are, I'm just thinking I may get acceptable accuracy / grouping from one or more.

What I will say is shooting foxes at night off sticks, whilst I have been walking around is I'm sure the biggest reason for my inaccuracy. But I do ultimately want the load to be, firstly safe, but the best I can get it at a reasonable price, with the added satisfaction that I constructed that load.
​Thanks

Best thing you can do is buy a book like ABCs of reloading by Bill Chevalier and read it until you understand the basics. By the time you have read through everyones debates and opinions on here you could of read the book several times over and have a much better idea of what you are doing by the end of it.

I disagree that you can mix cases and expect consistent accuracy and I would not advise you do it from a safety perspective either. Despite what has been said by Paul there are a number of mistakes that are easily made that would could create dangerous pressures. Buy the book and read it. You won't regret it!

 

[8x57]

Forget about the possible safety aspects that Paul has addressed in his own way, I simply take the view that mixing cases introduces one more variable that can simply be eliminated merely by seperating your cases.

 

[NeilG]

I have several different makes of used cartridges all fired from my gun. When I eventually get everthing together and actually make my 1st load how much of a variation would these different cases make to the accuracy when everthing else is identical ? or should you always use the same make of brass.

It's been sometime, since I've started doing something new, that has left me wanting to ask so many questions. Maybe it's the thought that it could all go so terribly wrong.

Charlie Boy.

There is a `sticky` on reloading a Case to a Loaded Round, at the top of the `Ammunition, Reloading, Ballistics` page, by CSL ( Admin and Co-Owner ). Very good read from a knowledgeable source, which lays the process out clearly.

I did not see what calibre you are re-loading for, but if it is .243 or .30-06, and you have mixed cases of a few brands, PM me and I can send you a decent number of once fired cases from the same manufacturer to get you going....

There are some very experienced people on here, but reloading for deer stalking, means keep it simple, follow the basics as per a good reloading manual, find a load parameter that gives you 1" or better at 100 yards, and then learn to use it.... Over time, as you get better, and if you want to chase tiny groups, then you can push yourself and you reloading accordingly.

All the best.

Neil.

 

[Muir]

Forget about the possible safety aspects that Paul has addressed in his own way, I simply take the view that mixing cases introduces one more variable that can simply be eliminated merely by seperating your cases.

Agreed about variables. I am always surprised that with a group of guys who always want to use the "Best Practice" in all they do, they ignore some basic tenants of reloading, like, SEGREGATE BRASS BY LOT AND MAKER. It has been a rule of reloading since I was a kid.~Muir

 

[see it shoot it]

Agreed about variables. I am always surprised that with a group of guys who always want to use the "Best Practice" in all they do, they ignore some basic tenants of reloading, like, SEGREGATE BRASS BY LOT AND MAKER. It has been a rule of reloading since I was a kid.~Muir

I bet that's a longgggggggggg time
at last God has spoken maybe now people may listen as obviously I aint got a clue what Iam talking about.

 

[PeterH]

I aint got a clue what Iam talking about.

SISI - sorry but you have !! But I think you have to realize that reloaders fall into to different categories.

There are those that think 'that will do - I cant be arsed, its only for deer'

Then there are those that think' I know my rifle will do better than this - if I respect deer then they deserve to be shot with the best ammunition I can make'

SISI - you and I sit in the same camp

 

[Paul at Fechan]

why build a bullet so far beyond the ability of your rifle to print it's potential....? that's pointless

I like your assumption that we can't be arsed it's only for deer. A perfect 308 bullet won't make a centre chest shot deer any more dead than an average one at sensible ranges An average well made reload with a high spec bullet is more accurate that a standard factory round, true or false mate? So are you saying people using factory ammo that doesn't group nearly as well as a sound reload don't respect the deer??

Oh right, no elitist snobbery there at all eh? Your rounds are better than my rounds so your a more respectful of the deer and better stalkers

If you respect the deer you'd spend more time in the field developing your stalking craft among the deer rather than at the loading bench and punching pointless holes in paper to work up loads that can't make deer deader than dead.

 

[Tackleberry270]

why build a bullet so far beyond the ability of your rifle to print it's potential....? that's pointless

I like your assumption that we can't be arsed it's only for deer. A perfect 308 bullet won't make a centre chest shot deer any more dead than an average one at sensible ranges An average well made reload with a high spec bullet is more accurate that a standard factory round, true or false mate? So are you saying people using factory ammo that doesn't group nearly as well as a sound reload don't respect the deer??

Oh right, no elitist snobbery there at all eh? Your rounds are better than my rounds so your a more respectful of the deer and better stalkers

If you respect the deer you'd spend more time in the field developing your stalking craft among the deer rather than at the loading bench and punching pointless holes in paper to work up loads that can't make deer deader than dead.

Paul. Its my opinion that the old adage,'most rifles can outshoot the shooter' is a myth. I think quite a high percentage of rifles, especially 2nd hand, have disappointing accuracy. As you have suggested some makes are inherently accurate and you can include some stalking rifles in this. It sounds like you have a good one. The rest need all the help they can get the best out of them, this is where I would disagree on cases. And there are the soul destroyers..... but how would you know that they couldn't shoot if you were not ironing out all the variables?

This article makes some good/interesting points,

www.ballisticstudies.com/Rifle+Accuracy+and+Ballistics

 

[Paul at Fechan]

I would just point out that before I became 'sloppy' I was a strict anal reloader but my T3 turns an easy sub inch group with 'good' reloads. There's no chance of this accuracy with plinking surplus and certain factory options that may do better in other rifles. Variables as you mentioned in terms of ammo construction and the finesse of using the very best that you can are fractional compared to the environmental variables that the stalker is faced with in the real world. Wind, position, elevated heart rate and a target that is never actually still. This is not to mention the grade of optics mounted on the rifle that and let be honest with that will make or break your ability in the field.

I will not pretend that I could put my mixed case ammo against match loaded stuff in a custom build or the likes of an AI or Rangemeaster and not be able to see the difference in results, nor would I claim the potential to beat an experience match shooter with my T3 V's their custom.

'best Practice' in reloading, yeh I'd agree that I don't follow it but then I used to before I found what worked best for me... Hope that makes sense

 

[robert1666]

in reply to the origional question , when i got my first centre fire .223 i bought lots differtn ammo to experiment with from old winchester things sakos , fedreals etc , then i go into reloading so i saved all my once fired brass , some one told me that you shouldnt mix differnt makes of brass i have tried loading up a batch of sakos and batch of winchesters etc and tell you what they all hit the same poi with the same charges no diffeence what so ever as some of you have said when doing our hobby were not shooting deer at 1000 yards its 100 to 200 yards maximum , so using a mix of brass in good condition with sensible powder loads = sensible groupings on paper and dead deer in the field!

 

[Ted47]

charlie boy, I'm new to reloading mate , been shooting and stalking a lot longer, I got some brass off 2 really helpful guys on this forum, both were mixed bags. I segregated each bag into lots of each make, and will load one brand at a time to get consistency , not just from pressures inside the cases, but case wear(thinning cases, and cases stretching meaning they need trimmed) .once that brand has been reloaded so much that the cases show wear I will change brand and move onto the next one.

there are those who get on there soap boxes and start preaching to everyone to be perfect ,and there are those that know they can get the results from the work they put into it. I will take advice off both and use it however I deem most suitable , top and bottom use common sense and stay safe.

plus read your manuals again and again , i've nearly worn out my Lee manual.

 

[Tackleberry270]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the difference between .308 and 7.62 cases.....

 

[Simjim33]

RCharlie boy.
you can make reloading as simple as you like. Lee offer reloading kits that don't even use a press. There call lee loaders. They contain a dipper to meter the powder out. The dipper if used with the powders they recommend with the loader kit will produce good, safe ammo.

Now that might cheese some off. But it would not matter one hoot what brass you used with those kits. Reloading safe is the first thing to be sure of. Reload to what you want to do. If you want to chase the accuracy band wagon that's fine. In most deer rifles it is just a waste of your time.

Also the idea that. I don't respect the deer I shoot. Is total crap. Dead is dead full stop. If you have to spend thousands of pounds perfecting your perfect round then you missed the piont! You have my pity.

Or.
You are acting out some kind of black Opps super sniper 1000 yard head shot fantasy.

If you want to make safe accurate deer stalking ammo then the very basic kit like the lee loader will work fine for you.

Now over to SISI and others Who will tell you that it's all bollox!

 

[biker1]

Hate to say this but I use any brass that I get hold of and long as is not damaged or dented then I clean trim and load and I have not had any probs with accuracy .I Also use lee dies and press and I did bin the lee scales for electronic ones regards tony

 

[Muir]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the difference between .308 and 7.62 cases.....

I did.~Muir
(Lake city VS Winchester, but I don't think it's pertinent in this case)

 

[Hornet]

I wouldent take some of the coments from posters on this fine deer stalking forum, personaly Paul. They shoot deer, but only if it's a picture of one that they have stapled to a target at the range!

The subject of reloading on this, a deer stalking forum has seemed to attracted "those kind" of reloaders.

Love it how right you are.