Digital v’s glass

[Ratel]

All good advice and I respect what you say. Lucky to have never lost a deer yet but thats probably more of not shooting enough yet. The one thing I do think is that digital right on last light reduces the chances of a bed shot. Talked to one guy and he made a joke about what he called "black blobbing" when its getting to last legal light and its difficult to see the deer with glass. At least with digital you have a much clearer picture. With glass I reckon I stop 20 mins before last legal as I am not happy (my eyes are maybe not as good as some but this is using Swaro Z6i so a decent scope).

Generally I prefer first light rather then last as you can deal with the extraction, gralloch and trip to the game dealer in the light which is much easier.

Ultimately we make our choices and have to deal with the consequences

Yes Mike, but also a few have had problems with digi not being on the right spot when the trigger is pulled due to a time frame I was told. But there we go, each to his own and if we were all the same it would be a miserable old world. Evening time when I can no longer get an excellent picture in my scope I text anybody that's out. Come in your time's up, larder in ten minutes.

 

[Leec6.5]

Yes Mike, but also a few have had problems with digi not being on the right spot when the trigger is pulled due to a time frame I was told. But there we go, each to his own and if we were all the same it would be a miserable old world. Evening time when I can no longer get an excellent picture in my scope I text anybody that's out. Come in your time's up, larder in ten minutes.

That there is a man talking common sense!

Fair play to you sir.

I follow exactly the same rules of engagement here on my cull days.

 

[Rutland lad]

Digital has its place in our stalking toolbox.
It’s down to you to work out where that is within your stalking.

I’ve used digital for the last two seasons. I’ve had a few more muntjac at last light, and I’ve had a couple of unexplained (to me) misses.

At the end of the season I must have taken more deer because I was using a digiscope, but I’ve also had more grief finding some deer that didn’t leave much blood trail in the dark. My hrs/deer ratio did not show I was doing better, I was just there longer.

I still like good glass, but I’d find it very difficult to argue my numbers would’ve been as much on just glass as they were with glass AND digital.

When I think about it, if someone said ‘your glass scopes are all unusable’ I’d be gutted. If someone said the same about my digital I wouldn’t be half as bothered. Those last 20 mins of light aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things - to me anyway.

 

[Mike1979]

Yes Mike, but also a few have had problems with digi not being on the right spot when the trigger is pulled due to a time frame I was told. But there we go, each to his own and if we were all the same it would be a miserable old world. Evening time when I can no longer get an excellent picture in my scope I text anybody that's out. Come in your time's up, larder in ten minutes.

I know there is talk of this "digital lag" but something I havent had (UV issue on the Alpex which needed repair).

As I have said I much prefer glass to digital when its light enough.

 

[Ratel]

Digital has its place in our stalking toolbox.
It’s down to you to work out where that is within your stalking.

I’ve used digital for the last two seasons. I’ve had a few more muntjac at last light, and I’ve had a couple of unexplained (to me) misses.

At the end of the season I must have taken more deer because I was using a digiscope, but I’ve also had more grief finding some deer that didn’t leave much blood trail in the dark. My hrs/deer ratio did not show I was doing better, I was just there longer.

I still like good glass, but I’d find it very difficult to argue my numbers would’ve been as much on just glass as they were with glass AND digital.

I realse the restrictions with your ground, you do need digi for what you do. See you November if not before.

 

[slider]

There is very little place in my view for digital and novice stalkers.

A novice stalker needs to learn how to find deer, accurately observe deer and shoot them quickly and humanely.

Ah yes, and there is no place for new fangled automatic transmission, pesky seat belts, ABS brakes and air bags. The novice driver needs to learn to drive a Model T Ford in order to have the ability to drive safely on the roads.......

Times change, technology changes, those thst stand still go backwards.

 

[TURNBOLT]

Morning or evening I take both they just compliment each other.Thermal is a game changer but I wouldn’t be without binoculars.

 

[Heym SR20]

Ah yes, and there is no place for new fangled automatic transmission, pesky seat belts, ABS brakes and air bags. The novice driver needs to learn to drive a Model T Ford in order to have the ability to drive safely on the roads.......

Times change, technology changes, those thst stand still go backwards.

But most driving schools teach learner drivers how to drive with a manual gearbox and a foot operated clutch, and reversing aids are switched off when learning how to parallel park, along with lane assist etc when driving on the high way. Indeed I think all such assistance needs to be turned off for driving tests.

 

[slider]

But most driving schools teach learner drivers how to drive with a manual gearbox and a foot operated clutch, and reversing aids are switched off when learning how to parallel park, along with lane assist etc when driving on the high way. Indeed I think all such assistance needs to be turned off for driving tests.

Manual gearbox, whats that???

 

[Heym SR20]

Manual gearbox, whats that???

Quite

 

[kenbro]

I know there is talk of this "digital lag" but something I havent had (UV issue on the Alpex which needed repair).

As I have said I much prefer glass to digital when its light enough.

Digital is just like looking through a camera, surely?
Kb.

 

[kenbro]

Morning or evening I take both they just compliment each other.Thermal is a game changer but I wouldn’t be without binoculars.

Thermal is much better than binns. to try finding downed animals in the dark.
Kb.

 

[Leec6.5]

Thermal is much better than binns. to try finding downed animals in the dark.
Kb.

Not if they’ve run off with a broken leg or a swinging jaw or a hole in the wind pipe, any of those symptoms and they’re gonna run!

 

[kenbro]

Not if they’ve run off with a broken leg or a swinging jaw or a hole in the wind pipe, any of those symptoms and they’re gonna run!

Circumstances matter not, if it’s dark a thermal spotter always bests binns.
Kb.

 

[Mike1979]

Digital is just like looking through a camera, surely?
Kb.

Not sure what you mean mate?

I wasnt sure if you meant the "lag" comment or just about the image quality

 

[Heym SR20]

Digital is just like looking through a camera, surely?
Kb.

Digital is not like looking through an SLR camera where you are looking straight through the lense. Or in other words the light comes through the lense and straight into your eye.

With digital you are looking at a little screen inside the device. The light or infra red rays enter the device, are picked up by electronic sensors, interpreted by a processor which produces an image for the screen.

I have tried a number of different digital products. The quality and definition of the image is often much worse than proper glass, there is often a time lag as you move the device, the image drags.

Field of view is generally very narrow, so you need to have a low magnification. And at the low mag, that deer you are looking for is just a small dot. So too are lots of other things such as rocks etc. What you really need is movement.

In digital aiming devices, as well as spotters, you are also presented with huge amounts of information on the screen, all of which gets confusing.

Then you have the electronics. These things are designed by young geeks who know little about actual use. They are run by menus which need to be scrolled through to turn things on and off.

Then batteries. If you have ever been with a group using digital, they are constantly worrying about batteries- whether they are charged or not etc. And cold weather and batteries for digital gear really don’t work well. Batteries like being nice and warm and have a habit of not working when temperatures drop.

Glass on the other hand is just simple and works. It does have its challenges in the snow and rain, but lense covers and avoiding breathing all over them helps.

 

[kenbro]

Digital is not like looking through an SLR camera where you are looking straight through the lense. Or in other words the light comes through the lense and straight into your eye.

With digital you are looking at a little screen inside the device. The light or infra red rays enter the device, are picked up by electronic sensors, interpreted by a processor which produces an image for the screen.

I have tried a number of different digital products. The quality and definition of the image is often much worse than proper glass, there is often a time lag as you move the device, the image drags.

Field of view is generally very narrow, so you need to have a low magnification. And at the low mag, that deer you are looking for is just a small dot. So too are lots of other things such as rocks etc. What you really need is movement.

In digital aiming devices, as well as spotters, you are also presented with huge amounts of information on the screen, all of which gets confusing.

Then you have the electronics. These things are designed by young geeks who know little about actual use. They are run by menus which need to be scrolled through to turn things on and off.

Then batteries. If you have ever been with a group using digital, they are constantly worrying about batteries- whether they are charged or not etc. And cold weather and batteries for digital gear really don’t work well. Batteries like being nice and warm and have a habit of not working when temperatures drop.

Glass on the other hand is just simple and works. It does have its challenges in the snow and rain, but lense covers and avoiding breathing all over them helps.

Thanks Heym.
Ken.

 

[Heym SR20]

Thanks Heym.
Ken.

The other big challenge I find with digital kit of all types is that once you get to a certain age every thing goes fuzzy, and you need to find your glasses to find the tiny little buttons to turn them on. And if your fingers are cold, had injuries etc etc those little lumps and bumps cannot be felt.

So you need to carry a pair of glasses. If, like me, you are getting long sighted, you don’t need them for normal viewing. There for they have to be carried - usually in a pocket, and that crunch you heard as you laid down - yup that was your glasses.

Beauty with glass is that most will accommodate pretty poor eyesight and as soon as you look through you have a lovely crisp image. If you zero your scope to shoot 4cm high at 100m, your bullet from vast majority of stalking cartridges will ne within 4cm of point of aim out to about 230m.

If you know what a deer looks like compared to your reticle at 100, 200 and 300, you can very quickly and easily determine if the deer is beyond this distance and this need to get closer.

If the deer is close, then concentrate on putting that cross hair in the middle of kill zone, reading the wind and squeezing that trigger. If you need to think about wind on a live animal - it’s too far and get closer. I have chased enough wounded deer to know that longer range shots really don’t result in saving lots of time. Following up a deer that has run after the shot, or even worse run with an immediately non lethal shot takes a very long and usually pretty miserable time.

As for thermal helping to find downed animals, deer have a good insulated coat, and if very wet very quickly will get cold. And if wounded tend to head towards thick cover, again which can mask a thermal signature very easily. In my experience they always seen to fall into gutters or down between the rocks and covered by heather. If there is no uninterrupted straight line for thermal or light waves no detector will pick it up.

The only really good means of finding animals is a decent dog.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Digital is not like looking through an SLR camera where you are looking straight through the lense. Or in other words the light comes through the lense and straight into your eye.

With digital you are looking at a little screen inside the device. The light or infra red rays enter the device, are picked up by electronic sensors, interpreted by a processor which produces an image for the screen.

I have tried a number of different digital products. The quality and definition of the image is often much worse than proper glass, there is often a time lag as you move the device, the image drags.

Field of view is generally very narrow, so you need to have a low magnification. And at the low mag, that deer you are looking for is just a small dot. So too are lots of other things such as rocks etc. What you really need is movement.

In digital aiming devices, as well as spotters, you are also presented with huge amounts of information on the screen, all of which gets confusing.

Then you have the electronics. These things are designed by young geeks who know little about actual use. They are run by menus which need to be scrolled through to turn things on and off.

Then batteries. If you have ever been with a group using digital, they are constantly worrying about batteries- whether they are charged or not etc. And cold weather and batteries for digital gear really don’t work well. Batteries like being nice and warm and have a habit of not working when temperatures drop.

Glass on the other hand is just simple and works. It does have its challenges in the snow and rain, but lense covers and avoiding breathing all over them helps.

The other big challenge I find with digital kit of all types is that once you get to a certain age every thing goes fuzzy, and you need to find your glasses to find the tiny little buttons to turn them on. And if your fingers are cold, had injuries etc etc those little lumps and bumps cannot be felt.

So you need to carry a pair of glasses. If, like me, you are getting long sighted, you don’t need them for normal viewing. There for they have to be carried - usually in a pocket, and that crunch you heard as you laid down - yup that was your glasses.

Beauty with glass is that most will accommodate pretty poor eyesight and as soon as you look through you have a lovely crisp image. If you zero your scope to shoot 4cm high at 100m, your bullet from vast majority of stalking cartridges will ne within 4cm of point of aim out to about 230m.

If you know what a deer looks like compared to your reticle at 100, 200 and 300, you can very quickly and easily determine if the deer is beyond this distance and this need to get closer.

If the deer is close, then concentrate on putting that cross hair in the middle of kill zone, reading the wind and squeezing that trigger. If you need to think about wind on a live animal - it’s too far and get closer. I have chased enough wounded deer to know that longer range shots really don’t result in saving lots of time. Following up a deer that has run after the shot, or even worse run with an immediately non lethal shot takes a very long and usually pretty miserable time.

As for thermal helping to find downed animals, deer have a good insulated coat, and if very wet very quickly will get cold. And if wounded tend to head towards thick cover, again which can mask a thermal signature very easily. In my experience they always seen to fall into gutters or down between the rocks and covered by heather. If there is no uninterrupted straight line for thermal or light waves no detector will pick it up.

The only really good means of finding animals is a decent dog.

2 posts that are so far removed from the reality of using digital that they can only be your assumptions not experience. It really isn’t how you describe.
The glasses ramblings is hilarious , how do you think people manage adjust scopes when shooting rats, rabbits and foxes in the pitch darkness, light the scope up with a torch and put glasses on? have a word.

 

[Heym SR20]

2 posts that are so far removed from the reality of using digital that they can only be your assumptions not experience. It really isn’t how you describe.
The glasses ramblings is hilarious , how do you think people manage adjust scopes when shooting rats, rabbits and foxes in the pitch darkness, light the scope up with a torch and put glasses on? have a word.

I am speaking from my own experience. I have used digital optics myself. I have also spent plenty of time with others all using digital optics and observing the constant faff that all have. I have also shot plenty of rabbits, foxes and deer in the dark pre digital age. We used lamps.

Personally I don’t think digital is worth the high expense of buying the kit, nor the fact that it is quickly out of date and pretty much worthless within a couple of years.