Effect of night shooting on activity patterns

[Mungo]

Historically, the general consensus was that if deer were disturbed too much during the day, they became nocturnal. I don’t think many would disagree with this, and I saw it often enough to believe it.

Now: what happens if the bulk of shooting shifts to night shooting? There are many areas of Scotland where the majority of shooting happens at night, legally or illegally

One prediction is that this should actually shift them back to being diurnal. Another is that it should shift them to just being generally extremely sneaky.

Has anyone shot over the same bit of ground long enough, through changing regimes, to know what actually happens?

 

[nun_hunter]

I've shot one piece for almost 10 years and have noticed a shift in the last 2 years. Since COVID, fallow numbers increased quite considerably and I know of a few farms surrounding the area I stalk that have night licences but still having to remain within season.

The bucks and does seem to behave much the same as always during the 6 months the does are not in season. However, during the doe season the deer do not leave the woods during legal shooting hours. The does only appear at the edge of the woodland and o ly just visible to the thermal as last legal light approaches and they don't leave into the fields until a while after legal light. I think this is due to thermal and NV allowing shooting right up until the last legal minute. When the deer do come out they are in much smaller groups, often only 2s and 3s and they move fast across the open ground for the first few hours.

I've not waited out much longer as I dont have a night licence so just wait to see what they do and if there are any foxes about.

During the day I can find them hidden in thick woodland but with the amount of fallen leaves and dead twigs moving without making a sound is difficult. Even with a thermal it's easy to miss one or two couched deer in a group so I plan my stalk in and then get spotted by a deer I'd not seen with the thermal They are more skittish and likely to bolt quicker than I experienced in the past.

 

[mike308]

I have night shooting licences on my permissions but try not to use them because I find that night shooting upsets the deer making them very nervous.
At the moment I am benefitting from night shooting in the neighboring forest where they are shooting them hard at night because the deer have moved into my ground enabling me to catch up on my cull, sticking to normal shooting hours.

 

[wytonpjs]

I've shot one piece for almost 10 years and have noticed a shift in the last 2 years. Since COVID, fallow numbers increased quite considerably and I know of a few farms surrounding the area I stalk that have night licences but still having to remain within season.

The bucks and does seem to behave much the same as always during the 6 months the does are not in season. However, during the doe season the deer do not leave the woods during legal shooting hours. The does only appear at the edge of the woodland and o ly just visible to the thermal as last legal light approaches and they don't leave into the fields until a while after legal light. I think this is due to thermal and NV allowing shooting right up until the last legal minute. When the deer do come out they are in much smaller groups, often only 2s and 3s and they move fast across the open ground for the first few hours.

I've not waited out much longer as I dont have a night licence so just wait to see what they do and if there are any foxes about.

During the day I can find them hidden in thick woodland but with the amount of fallen leaves and dead twigs moving without making a sound is difficult. Even with a thermal it's easy to miss one or two couched deer in a group so I plan my stalk in and then get spotted by a deer I'd not seen with the thermal They are more skittish and likely to bolt quicker than I experienced in the past.

I'm seeing exactly the same behaviours

 

[Mungo]

Seems very much that night shooting makes them substantially more sneaky and harder to shoot, at any time.

Which then raises the obvious question of whether it’s actually counterproductive in the long term?

Or whether it needs to be done much more strategically: limited to a small number of outings, spread out across the year.

 

[Dave_45]

Seems very much that night shooting makes them substantially more sneaky and harder to shoot, at any time.

Which then raises the obvious question of whether it’s actually counterproductive in the long term?

Or whether it needs to be done much more strategically: limited to a small number of outings, spread out across the year.

Some folk think it’s better to not over stalk an area but everytime you go to , shoot whatever fits your needs and the area needs.

I’ve been in places night shooting and it seems to make no odds to numbers, and with sika especially, you are just making them even harder to get.

 

[nun_hunter]

Seems very much that night shooting makes them substantially more sneaky and harder to shoot, at any time.

Which then raises the obvious question of whether it’s actually counterproductive in the long term?

Or whether it needs to be done much more strategically: limited to a small number of outings, spread out across the year.

That would work well on large estates but round here it's made up of hundreds of different farms and smallholding usually under 200 acres and most much smaller than that. The fallow move across them frequently. You'd need a very well organised DMG that covered all available shooting ground to work together. It only takes one or two places to keep hammering the deer to the point they learn when is safe and where to avoid.

 

[countrryboy]

Seems very much that night shooting makes them substantially more sneaky and harder to shoot, at any time.

Which then raises the obvious question of whether it’s actually counterproductive in the long term?

Or whether it needs to be done much more strategically: limited to a small number of outings, spread out across the year.

It will be very species and land dependant.
Possibly also how good the stalkers using them are too.
How much noise, disturbance there making

In theory with roe shouldnae make any difference as u will most likely be taking the whole group in 1 go.

With the onsett of thermal and NV the effects might be less obvious than previously with the lamp.
Most of my experience of night shooting was in the past on the lamp.
But might be more spooked by any strange noise, door slam etc whereas previously it was just the light of lamp which spooked them after a few times outings

I know off a local pkace that changed stalkibg styles and doing far more out motor windows or not pulling compketely out of sight and staljing back in.
Now anytime a motor drives to slow the deer start to get spooked and move.

 

[Ratel]

I found out years ago when shooting Sika under night licence never to try shooting at a big bunch using a lamp. We only shot hinds and calves with up to three in a group and usually got the three. That way the effect on Sika was minimal.Mind they were still hard to stalk in daylight unless they were feeding well out on the hill or ambushed on narrow tracks in thick cover. My last wife was an adept at the latter.

 

[NickJ]

I found out years ago when shooting Sika under night licence never to try shooting at a big bunch using a lamp. We only shot hinds and calves with up to three in a group and usually got the three. That way the effect on Sika was minimal.Mind they were still hard to stalk in daylight unless they were feeding well out on the hill or ambushed on narrow tracks in thick cover. My last wife was an adept at the latter.

100%…and get out the truck and walk too

 

[Donkey Basher]

I have night shooting licences on my permissions but try not to use them because I find that night shooting upsets the deer making them very nervous.
At the moment I am benefitting from night shooting in the neighboring forest where they are shooting them hard at night because the deer have moved into my ground enabling me to catch up on my cull, sticking to normal shooting hours.

This is exactly what I’d expect wrt fallow, they catch on quickly & get very jumpy.

 

[rem284]

The dead ones are not sneaky or difficult to get

 

[SussexSteve]

You will just push them off

 

[Bugsy]

A few years ago stalking a bit of ground up north of me I was sitting having a cuppa overlooking a big restock and out popped 5 red . It was about 2pm and they were quite happy feeding up a ride with the odd head up but they seemed happy enough. It was the first time I had seen deer on this bit even when nightshooting . After about 30 mins suddenly all there heads were up and they took off hell for leather back into the high timber , looking about I couldn’t spy what had spooked them , couldn’t have been me either , then around the corner of the forest road comes the forester in his pickup . So as I’d always thought deer realise dangerous noises and know the consequences . After that I took the bicycle up with me , parked well back and cycled in , it made a big difference when nightshooting to .

 

[NickJ]

A few years ago stalking a bit of ground up north of me I was sitting having a cuppa overlooking a big restock and out popped 5 red . It was about 2pm and they were quite happy feeding up a ride with the odd head up but they seemed happy enough. It was the first time I had seen deer on this bit even when nightshooting . After about 30 mins suddenly all there heads were up and they took off hell for leather back into the high timber , looking about I couldn’t spy what had spooked them , couldn’t have been me either , then around the corner of the forest road comes the forester in his pickup . So as I’d always thought deer realise dangerous noises and know the consequences . After that I took the bicycle up with me , parked well back and cycled in , it made a big difference when nightshooting to .

I always had a bumper week culling when my FC Land Rover was in for it's annual service and drove the workshop Astra van!

 

[Shootgun]

I’m stalking a piece of ground on which I have a night licence and before that it was very common to see herds of 200-300 out in open fields.
Since the night shooting, they are very skittish and only in small groups. The great majority are on the neighbouring land where the landowners don’t allow shooting, and can be seen in broad daylight.

 

[User100]

Historically, the general consensus was that if deer were disturbed too much during the day, they became nocturnal. I don’t think many would disagree with this, and I saw it often enough to believe it.

Has anyone shot over the same bit of ground long enough, through changing regimes, to know what actually happens?

With the number of variables, I wonder if anyone knows what actually happens.

'Becoming nocturnal' means different things to different people. In my area of south England, the fallow are in huge numbers and they graze day and night. In areas where they are persistently shot, they go elsewhere in the day but night-time behaviour is pretty much unchanged.

My experience of night licences, which are obviously granted to try to reduce numbers, is that the deer do not avoid an area after a period of shooting in the way that they do in daytime. However, the shooting is a lot more successful and so a lot of the lead individuals that have and teach ingrained transit routes and feeding areas get removed fairly quickly. My view is that leaves a lot of followers trying work out what to do - so you start to observe behaviour that is different from before. If they become more flighty, is that because of the shooting activity or because they're losing the confidence of the established herd structure?

 

[Camdig]

A few observations from me, i stalked a heavily poached area that had a public road through it, if you stopped the vehicle everything took off.
On another place when I changed from a diesel pickup to a petrol shogun the deer didn't flinch when you drove in, am guessing i sounded more like a quad.

 

[Donkey Basher]

Been to one of my favourite morning ‘ambush’ spots today & for the 2nd time running the fallow were already on their way elsewhere - this was at 0630 when sunrise was 0808 so not legal to shoot till nearly 40 minutes later!

Also for the second time this morning, when I “baa’d” to stop 3 does crossing a field they stopped momentarily but then bolted pretty much immediately - they’ve learned to associate that noise with danger!

They’re not stupid these fallow!

I’ve changed my tactics a bit to counter these movements but I’m sure over time I’ll have to change them again.

 

[Bugsy]

I always had a bumper week culling when my FC Land Rover was in for it's annual service and drove the workshop Astra van!

You’ve got to be one step ahead , I’ve got a bit at the moment with a night licence and I just drive in past them slowly then stop about 1/2 mile further on , walk back and always manage 3-4 , they trot of and I leave it a week and do the same again .