End of the 17wsm in the UK?

ALLHONE hunting knives designed and made in NZ
Angrybear said:
Appreciate it's an older thread but I am a huge fan of 17WSM,
It could/should have been the perfect rimfire calibre for the UK for rabbits/corvids & even fox, with reach far beyond HMR but never had a chance with such poor rifle choice.
Interestingly Winchester have just unveiled their own bolt action rifle in 2024, just when Hornady have discontinued manufacture of the ammo, (which is why Edgars can't get it :rolleyes:)

So only American Eagle 20gn in the UK assuming that's still made & imported, so for those of us who own one please pester the Winchester ammo importer to import some.
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Hello buddy, welcome along, from the chap who bought your K hornet 👍
 
Bavarianbrit said:
I suspect there are more licensed firearms holders in each of the US states than there in the whole of the UK.
Non licensed and long may it continue.
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Agreed, although there are only a handful of states that require a license to own/buy a firearm. And that is currently being contested in court, and working its way through the process....
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
given the prices they are fetching on guntrader- the rfds want rid of them asap- which doesn't bode well
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Well. what use is a rifle if you can't get ammunition ?
I am interested to know if Edgar Bros who brought the rifles over will make any efforts to obtain ammunition from another source, maybe Winchester,
or will they just abandon those of us who bought the rifles off them.
 
Angrybear said:
Well. what use is a rifle if you can't get ammunition ?
I am interested to know if Edgar Bros who brought the rifles over will make any efforts to obtain ammunition from another source, maybe Winchester,
or will they just abandon those of us who bought the rifles off them.
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Exactly. They aren't even pretty.....
 
Neddle said:
20 calibre would of been interesting as would a 20cal hornet
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A 20 cal rimfire would be lovely actually! But how fast would it be- similar to HMR I reckon ?

17 HMR 17gr 2500fps
17 WSM 20gr 3000fps

So a WSM cartridge .20 say 25gr would be what- 2500 fps ?

Perhaps a 20gr .20 cal would match WSM speeds- if the shape and bc wasn't horrible?
 
Imagine a .22 based on that case. .22 rimfire is legal in semi auto, although probably not for long should such a thing appear on the market.
 
Rimfire speeds confuse me slightly.....

22LR does 1300fps right ?
WMR in significantly larger case manages 2000 or so ?
HMR does 2500 for a bullet under half the weight
WSM does 3000 with similar HMR bullet weight

So a WSM with a 40gr .22 I don't think it would be *that* much quicker than a WMR weirdly- maybe 2200 or so....
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
Rimfire speeds confuse me slightly.....

22LR does 1300fps right ?
WMR in significantly larger case manages 2000 or so ?
HMR does 2500 for a bullet under half the weight
WSM does 3000 with similar HMR bullet weight

So a WSM with a 40gr .22 I don't think it would be *that* much quicker than a WMR weirdly- maybe 2200 or so....
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It could possibly be pushed harder than the WMR/HMR though as the WSM allows a higher chamber pressure.

There was a 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnum which had a .20 calibre bullet and could outshine WMR in speed and more retained energy than HMR. Shame it dwindled into almost obsolescence.
 
If you compare HMR and WSM, and use this as basis, the higher pressure of WSM is already factored in.

If we take everything as linear (which is not true), bb2010 is right at the money. WSM (3000fps) has 20% advantage over HMR (2500fps). 40gr WMR is claimed usually 1875fps, so 40gr 22cal WSM would be 2250fps.
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
Rimfire speeds confuse me slightly.....

22LR does 1300fps right ?
WMR in significantly larger case manages 2000 or so ?
HMR does 2500 for a bullet under half the weight
WSM does 3000 with similar HMR bullet weight

So a WSM with a 40gr .22 I don't think it would be *that* much quicker than a WMR weirdly- maybe 2200 or so....
Click to expand...
22lr with subs is 950-1040, depending on the brand.
HMR does 2500, if you're lucky, with a 17gn Vmax, but with a 20gn it's only around 2250fps. (iirc both require a barrel over 18" & it drops by around 50fps per 1/2" under)
WSM is doing 3000+ with a 20gn Vmax, there are both 15gn lead free & 25gn Vmax in the US but they were never brought over here.

It might have been interesting as a .20 rimfire for the UK market, but the lightest Vmax is 32gn which would spoil the trajectory,
and you have to remember this is designed for the US market as a dirt cheap vermin control tool for open prairie where 150yd+ range matters more.
 
scotch_egg said:
Well we now have the .21 Sharp…

Winchester Introduces New 21 Sharp Rimfire Cartridge « Daily Bulletin

Winchester Ammunition has introduced the 21 Sharp™, a new rimfire cartridge with claimed significant benefits for recreational shooters and small game hunters. This new round is basically a .22 LR with a bit more zip and a non-rebated, slightly smaller diameter no-lead bullet.
bulletin.accurateshooter.com bulletin.accurateshooter.com
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This honestly seems like the most pointless invention to me personally, why fill a gap between a .22lr and .22wmr (albeit with a very slightly smaller in diameter bullet) that was never needed.

It talks about barrel replacement for the .22lr being possible, for the purpose of using non-toxics however due to velocities, that already makes it a redundant alternative for UK use. The idea of the UK use of .22lr rifles on live quarry, being the combination of subsonics and moderator for quiet use.

If we move on to not caring about the noise..well.. In 22wmr you could already get a 25grain NTX Hornady non-toxic (polymer tipper hollow point copper) that did 2100fps (although now they have stopped being imported to the UK) and due to the velocity the copper was being thrown at (still not enough), the expansion was hit and miss at all ranges (I say this from personal experience). So something going at a slower velocity and with less ft/lbs energy at that, made of copper, is going to be even more unreliable on live quarry and sometimes act like fmj.

This is unless they are playing with a jacketed/plated less dense zinc/tin idea/alternative with the ammunition they are manufacturing with the .21 Sharp?
 
jthyttin said:
If you compare HMR and WSM, and use this as basis, the higher pressure of WSM is already factored in.

If we take everything as linear (which is not true), bb2010 is right at the money. WSM (3000fps) has 20% advantage over HMR (2500fps). 40gr WMR is claimed usually 1875fps, so 40gr 22cal WSM would be 2250fps.
Click to expand...

Goodness more luck than judgement 😆
 
billy_boyle_2010 said:
A 20 cal rimfire would be lovely actually! But how fast would it be- similar to HMR I reckon ?

17 HMR 17gr 2500fps
17 WSM 20gr 3000fps

So a WSM cartridge .20 say 25gr would be what- 2500 fps ?

Perhaps a 20gr .20 cal would match WSM speeds- if the shape and bc wasn't horrible?
Click to expand...
Ummm...5mm Rem Mag....

5MM REMINGTON RIMFIRE MAGNUM - Jacketed Hollow Point

But like the other magnum, non-22 caliber rounds, they operate at much higher pressures, so standard, cheap, 22 rimfire actions won't work (except the older 452 CZ's).

IIRC, the .22LR/WMR run at 28k PSI. The 5mm RM runs at 36k psi. Not sure what the 17 WSM runs at, but I think it's close to the 5mm RM.
 
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