! Help!reiver xxv
Well-Known Member
Hi
"Working dogs for deer" by Niels Sondergard, highly recommended. Factual and well explained.
Regards
reiver xxv
"Working dogs for deer" by Niels Sondergard, highly recommended. Factual and well explained.
Regards
reiver xxv
Siggy
Well-Known Member
Hi
I found Ian Dunbar's book, Before and after getting your puppy very helpful. Also Neils Sondergaards book, Working with dogs for deer, has a chapter on getting your puppy, and while it doesn't go into so much detail, he does take you on through the rest of training.
I still like Guy Wallaces books.
Good luck!
Siggy
I found Ian Dunbar's book, Before and after getting your puppy very helpful. Also Neils Sondergaards book, Working with dogs for deer, has a chapter on getting your puppy, and while it doesn't go into so much detail, he does take you on through the rest of training.
I still like Guy Wallaces books.
Good luck!
Siggy
highland stalker
Well-Known Member
Them all! No only joking. I read through most books and took certain bits from them all. I think the most important thing is basic obedience. Mine took to walking at heel very easily and is happy to do so all day when stalking and will hunt all day at the pheasants. Don't listen to the horror stories that you will hear.
Siggy
Well-Known Member
+1 don't listen to the horror stories...and it might be a good idea to get all the books...something for it to chew!
highland stalker
Well-Known Member
I ordered the Guy Wallace book and the dog ate it before it hit the mat! There was a photo on here at the time.
I'm not particularly qualified as I have a HWV, but I'm bored, so thought I would reply anyway!!!
You can read all the books you like, but the basics are where it's at for the first 12 months.
Bond with the dog. Get him to trust you and want to please you. Make life fun, loving but disciplined, make sure he knows where the line is drawn. Always keep it positive.
I am not a fan of Field Trials. I prefer a dog that uses it's natural instincts rather than one that is trained to work by remote control. He has to sit, come when he's told to and walk to heel. You have to be able to stop him when you want to. Most of all he needs to learn to use what he has naturally built into him. If that's all you achieve in the first 12 months that's good enough.
I work mine on the birds and the deer. I'm not sure you can train a point into them, they just do it or they don't. He pointed his first grouse at 14 months and we do 10 days a year on grouse, pheasant or partridge. He was even pointing woodcock this season which impressed me.
I haven't focused on blood tracking, but instead pointing deer, which he does very well. Once he has locked on he will not run in if the deer bolts, he will not run in to shot, he stays put until he's told to do something. The bag has been filled on more than one occasion because of my little early warning system. I tend to be a fairly careful stalker so he has never been asked to do a long track on a wounded beast, but on the few occasions that deer have run into heavy cover after the shot he has been on them very quickly, probably saving me a great deal of time and heart ache.
He's not the best I'm sure, he's not classically trained, but he does a good job, enjoys what he does and is my little companion. And he sits on the sofa with me every evening wanting no more than to be with me. Many will frown, but it suits us.
Enjoy your dog, but make sure the basics are well ground in for the first 12 months.
You can read all the books you like, but the basics are where it's at for the first 12 months.
Bond with the dog. Get him to trust you and want to please you. Make life fun, loving but disciplined, make sure he knows where the line is drawn. Always keep it positive.
I am not a fan of Field Trials. I prefer a dog that uses it's natural instincts rather than one that is trained to work by remote control. He has to sit, come when he's told to and walk to heel. You have to be able to stop him when you want to. Most of all he needs to learn to use what he has naturally built into him. If that's all you achieve in the first 12 months that's good enough.
I work mine on the birds and the deer. I'm not sure you can train a point into them, they just do it or they don't. He pointed his first grouse at 14 months and we do 10 days a year on grouse, pheasant or partridge. He was even pointing woodcock this season which impressed me.
I haven't focused on blood tracking, but instead pointing deer, which he does very well. Once he has locked on he will not run in if the deer bolts, he will not run in to shot, he stays put until he's told to do something. The bag has been filled on more than one occasion because of my little early warning system. I tend to be a fairly careful stalker so he has never been asked to do a long track on a wounded beast, but on the few occasions that deer have run into heavy cover after the shot he has been on them very quickly, probably saving me a great deal of time and heart ache.
He's not the best I'm sure, he's not classically trained, but he does a good job, enjoys what he does and is my little companion. And he sits on the sofa with me every evening wanting no more than to be with me. Many will frown, but it suits us.
Enjoy your dog, but make sure the basics are well ground in for the first 12 months.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Must admit i've never been very imressed by most of the UK written HPR books, quite old fashioned written. Been a few years since i read them now but thought i prefered michael branders books. (The guy wallace book/phamlet working hors for deer? is a complete waste of time/ink/paper, only about 30 pages long so cheap, far more decent advice on here.)
Songaards book is very good for tracking training thou.
For basics ur as well reading a more normal gundog training book. The basics are really the same, just u'll find things a lot slower/more difficult than u would with a lab
Bit pricey but Rory Major's DVD is very good, Tommy brechanny's dvd is ancient but really pretty good and training is pretty modern despite how old it is.
Best advice is go for a lesson or 2, u've got Andy Cullen up ur way, meant to be very good with dogs and hpr's in paticular.
Also joining a training club wether normal gundog or HPR and get some help from experienced folk, omly thing about that is the club is only as good as its trainers, been to 1 hpr club where not impressed by the trainers
I'm still meaning to get down for a training day with andy sometime, meant to be 1 of the best along side rory and tommy.
I agree with nigel above about FT's generally for other breeds (esp labs and even spaniels, FT offer very little to genuine working dogs) but Hpr FT's are still pretty much like a days walked up shooting and the dog that wins 1 is a dog u'd love to shoot over or work all day,and the dogs can and do work all day as many will do a lot of grouse counting.
Althou FT is not really relevant for deer work, and also tend to breed faster more rangey dogs so possibly not so good for beating either
Songaards book is very good for tracking training thou.
For basics ur as well reading a more normal gundog training book. The basics are really the same, just u'll find things a lot slower/more difficult than u would with a lab
Bit pricey but Rory Major's DVD is very good, Tommy brechanny's dvd is ancient but really pretty good and training is pretty modern despite how old it is.
Best advice is go for a lesson or 2, u've got Andy Cullen up ur way, meant to be very good with dogs and hpr's in paticular.
Also joining a training club wether normal gundog or HPR and get some help from experienced folk, omly thing about that is the club is only as good as its trainers, been to 1 hpr club where not impressed by the trainers
I'm still meaning to get down for a training day with andy sometime, meant to be 1 of the best along side rory and tommy.
I agree with nigel above about FT's generally for other breeds (esp labs and even spaniels, FT offer very little to genuine working dogs) but Hpr FT's are still pretty much like a days walked up shooting and the dog that wins 1 is a dog u'd love to shoot over or work all day,and the dogs can and do work all day as many will do a lot of grouse counting.
Althou FT is not really relevant for deer work, and also tend to breed faster more rangey dogs so possibly not so good for beating either
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Think its more for a seperate thread.
But depending wot breed of dog i would agree with wot nigel has said, does not really apply to hpr's thou as a FT is still quite relevant/similar to a shoot day scenerio. Not so with other FT's.
More up to nigel to answer but i'd say the oppisate. Tracking shoes will encourage a dog to follow ground scent and putting nose to deck. To point/indicate deer at long ranges it will need to be air scenting, really just got to encourage it when it does it and having it out enough experience should teach it. Plus when it links stalking, wth a shot and then a treat
Sorry Wag, I was bored and feeling a little provocative, but will stand by what I said, only through my own experience.
I do quite a bit of walked up. On a few occasions we have been joined by a couple of field trialers. Whilst most of the dogs are working the cover in front of the guns up to 20 yds out the FT dogs are usually walking perfectly to heel, not doing much to help the day along at all. At the shot they are sent out to where the owner thinks the bird is and if they can't immediately find it they stop and look back for instruction rather than use their nose.
Happened in Yorkshire last year. The grouse was a strong runner. FT dog couldn't find it, owner didn't know where it had gone. 5 minutes spend sending the dog this way and that with no joy. Eventually recalled. Keeper walked past me with his 2 dogs muttering "bloody field trailers", cast them off, 30 seconds later grouse retrieved. He gave them no instruction at all.
On another occasion last season I was on a very nice shoot in Dorset. A few FTers using it as practice. I witnessed them on more than one occasion send a dog out for a retrieve, dog didn't do precicely as instructed and was eventually called off, punished and moved on to another bird, with the original bird left unpicked.
I have no issue with those who want to go Field Trialing, but I don't think the practices they adopt and the way they train the dogs makes for the best shooting dog.
Just my experience, not looking to start a scrap.
delta wolf
Well-Known Member
Well said. No reason you can't have a happy family dog that also works well for you.
McKenzie
Well-Known Member
Have to say I agree with Nigel. I've seen quite a few GSP FT dogs that are never let off the lead other than to do a simple retrieve. I assume that the owners are more interested in seeing robots winning competitions rather then seeing their dogs using their heads, behaving rather more naturally & enjoying themselves.
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countrryboy
Well-Known Member
While i agree with nigel about FT dogs and robots i'm assumng he's talking about Labs.
Not many 'robot' hpr dogs, most of the scores are related to hunting and far rangeing esp for a GSP (all HPR's breeds are expected to hunt differently at different ranges depending on breed, and should be judged/scored as such)
It will also depend on the handler, esp in hpr some very green handlers, fairly easy to get a run in a FT and sometime the standard of whole field is not great althou top 5-6 dogs are always very good
Hpr FT's do represent how the dogs are meant to be worked, the only problem is most folk want there dog to do something totally different (ie game shooting, rough shooting or picking up, not wot they were specifically breed for) so FT's are pretty irrelevant and for most rough shooting/deer dogs a FT background would potentially be a bad thing as dog would be too 'hot'.
The problem with FTing is it has become is own sport in its own right and now many people with no intrest in actual shooting will run in FT, i think more a prob;em with the more recent starts.
Know a few old timers (mostly A panel judges) and nothing wrong with there dogs, when they go out working usually have a good few pot lickers and retired FT dogs (seen a few wild ftch's) to do the donkey work of sweeping an pegging runners and save any young FT dogs for the long marks/blinds
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
i do agree to some degree with what countryboy has written, I have a very good friend who now runs his hpr's in feild trails because of the amount of handlers and politics of trying to get into spaniel and Labrador trails, in fact he won the British hpr Championship last year,
As for what should anybody get for there own needs is down to them, some lines are easier to train than others as has been said, it's down to the handler and what you are prepared to put into your dog, something that is very hot is going to need to be got on top of other wise you will be fighting with it for the next ten years or so,
please do your homework on the breed and be prepared to work hard, do this and you will have a dog to be proud of.
good luck
Tony
ajr
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with what Tony has said and having myself made up a FTCH (cocker), do your homework and be prepared to put the work in. Its so rewarding having a well trained dog at your shoot or to take stalking. However, I must add the perfect dog has yet to be born !!
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