EU ban on lead ammunition for airguns, shotguns and rifles

[Heym SR20]

According to the BASC press release there will be exemptions for target and clay pigeon shooting where there are proper bullet traps in place. Many clay grounds also have embankments to catch shot.

If we were still within the EU we would have been able to lobby British MEPs to vote against it ( oh, sorry we just sent idiots over there like Farage etc who were just enjoyed the gravy train), now we have no say whatsoever in Europe.

And yes thanks to Brexit it should not apply here per se, but our idiots will take this, gold plate it and make you sign for every single copper bullet and pellet you use.

And as regards target shooting with non-toxic, haven’t Fox released a solid nosed training bullet thats half the price of copper bullets.

 

[Heym SR20]

Also I think that the majority of monolithic non toxic bullets are made on CNC lathes and machined from solid bar. This is a quite expensive way of producing bullets. But does provide consistency.

I doubt hunting ammo volumes require much different methods of manufacturer.

However as military goes to non-toxic and bullets are made by stamping / swaging etc - as traditional cup and core bullets are, prices will come down. If you think of something like a screw fastening - these are made in large volumes on stamping type machines. Compared to a screw a solid bullet would be easier to make.

Current prices on London Metal exchange - Copper is about £7800 per tonne, lead a bit over £2,000 per tonne, but lead bullets are about 10% tin which is around £25,000 a tonne.

Steel is much cheaper - at just under £600 per tonne of rebar.

I think some military ammo uses steel cores with a swaged on copper jacket. They are very cheap to make.

 

[enfieldspares]

I think some military ammo uses steel cores with a swaged on copper jacket.

Yes. And in the UK much of it is classed as s5 ammunition.

 

[slider]

Thank God for Brexit

won't met the slightest difference, UK will follow them

 

[Woodenbeam]

The ban should come as no real surprise really when our own shooting organisations sold us out. If enough people spout the same clap trap the masses will listen, I really do not buy into this anti lead. Fair enough it is toxic but where are all the dead people? We’re just far better at sampling/analysing/extrapolation data these days and live in fear of living.
As for the MEP comment fighting our cause I commented to someone only this morning ‘Wonder what all that lot are doing now’ - hopefully a chunk of wage bill has reduced.
Field Sports Britain seem to be continually spouting about copper also - getting really boring
People seem to spent too much time having a campaign to do the right thing and advising others on what they should do - even when others don’t really give a monkeys hoot. Those campaigners ought to get a life and live a little, a saying come to mind - those that can ‘do’, those that can’t ‘teach’ (apologies to any actual teachers - this isn’t aimed at you).
Right grumpy chops has said his piece (that’s me), not a good start to the day

 

[Tim1]

But we aren't in Europe any more....will Brexit make a difference????

It ought to but there are plenty of idiots in power on this side of the Channel that will want to follow suit.

Tim

 

[CarlW]

Thankfully, we no longer need to worry about European idiots. Let's just focus on our home-grown British idiots instead. We should continue to oppose BASC's and Packham's joint campaign to outlaw lead and to destroy shooting.

 

[Crowstalker]

Soon we will not be able to use lead to shoot, coal to keep us warm, internal combustion engines to get about, we have to wear masks to go into banks now (we're all bank robbers now, although the opposite is true really), can't hug anyone or even shake their hands and kissing someone will be imprisonable. We can't go further than your own village/part of town/city. In 20 years, we'll all be vegetarians or vegans and wearing man made fabrics because the animals we get our natural fibres from will be all protected. New Meindl boots will be made out of compressed cabbage leaves. Our speech will be so bland and stunted through fear of invoking laws on insulting people and any sort of humour on the telly or in any company will fall foul of some law.

Do you know what we will be? We will be much poorer because of all this. I am convinced there is a big link and agenda behind all this climate change, veganism policital correctness nonsense! You see this banning petrol and diesel cars in 10 years, you know what that is going to do? Force people to chose between being able to buy a house or else have to be a stupidly expensive electric car. That's all OK for people living in the city or towns where there is decent public transport but us in the country will be taken back in time when you had to walk everywhere or wait for your local bus that is a mile away and only drives past once or twice a day!

 

[kennyc]

The writing has been on the wall for years, the Swiss club ranges have had to shut or install bullet traps , and they arent in the EU, for target shooters traps and electronic targets are the way forward

 

[Liveonce]

According to the BASC press release there will be exemptions for target and clay pigeon shooting where there are proper bullet traps in place. Many clay grounds also have embankments to catch shot.

Easy to do for trap disciplines like they did for the Olympics at Greenwich arsenal but I bet not cheap, but virtually impossible to do for the English sporting clays which is the largest discipline of all by far. Shot across all sorts of countryside, fields and woods. And even if technically possible where would the money come from, many small clubs would close.

 

[timbrayford]

According to the BASC press release there will be exemptions for target and clay pigeon shooting where there are proper bullet traps in place. Many clay grounds also have embankments to catch shot.

If we were still within the EU we would have been able to lobby British MEPs to vote against it ( oh, sorry we just sent idiots over there like Farage etc who were just enjoyed the gravy train), now we have no say whatsoever in Europe.

And yes thanks to Brexit it should not apply here per se, but our idiots will take this, gold plate it and make you sign for every single copper bullet and pellet you use.

And as regards target shooting with non-toxic, haven’t Fox released a solid nosed training bullet thats half the price of copper bullets.

Conjectural scaremongering

 

[timbrayford]

Also I think that the majority of monolithic non toxic bullets are made on CNC lathes and machined from solid bar. This is a quite expensive way of producing bullets. But does provide consistency.

I doubt hunting ammo volumes require much different methods of manufacturer.

However as military goes to non-toxic and bullets are made by stamping / swaging etc - as traditional cup and core bullets are, prices will come down. If you think of something like a screw fastening - these are made in large volumes on stamping type machines. Compared to a screw a solid bullet would be easier to make.

Current prices on London Metal exchange - Copper is about £7800 per tonne, lead a bit over £2,000 per tonne, but lead bullets are about 10% tin which is around £25,000 a tonne.

Steel is much cheaper - at just under £600 per tonne of rebar.

I think some military ammo uses steel cores with a swaged on copper jacket. They are very cheap to make.

Plod is going to just love the shooting public having access to steel cored rifle projectiles!

 

[25 Sharps]

Copper monolithics

Great. Even bouncier than lead, will not distort so will carry energy further and won’t work in existing rifles at subsonic levels.

Oh and will transfer energy less well in quarry and therefore be less humane.

Sounds great

 

[Bowland blades]

Omg , go through the basc link and action read the link they post ! The EU are an unworkable communist dictatorship . Military and police are exempt ! How much lead and worse goes down the military ranges , what about depleted unranium? lol ! Because forcing people to comply is basically proffered over actually complying I suppose ?
Meanwhile in America thier military are busy switching to copper and Radwell green here are now busy building non toxic !
Are we safe while we are out the EU ? I doubt it personally!

 

[palmer_mike]

Plod is going to just love the shooting public having access to steel cored rifle projectiles!

As well as them being classed as AP and illegal under the deer act

 

[Bowland blades]

Great. Even bouncier than lead, will not distort so will carry energy further and won’t work in existing rifles at subsonic levels.

Oh and will transfer energy less well in quarry and therefore be less humane.

Sounds great

Forget bouncy for a minute, the 22 lr would be finished if it was copper making up tge choice . However its not tge only choice copper jacketed zinc (another toxic metal ) this is already being produced for cf (tried it so far I haven't managed to get it stabilised.
22 lr not being available in something heavy , cheap and none lead chances for real ? Not vast I suppose but tgecreal limit is tge cheap bit !
I know a British manufacturer is already field testing none subsonic that is reported to be accurate but its not subsonic

 

[Dunwaters]

No, there is a big difference.

I’ve heard that hens can break their teeth on steel shot

 

[Bowland blades]

I’ve heard that hens can break their teeth on steel shot

Now I have used steel a long while and a lot ! This is tge only disadvantage to steel in tge real world . The imaginary world is what most of us fear
What you have to do is change tge way you cook and eat the game , if you think I don't regularly find geese carrying healed up lead BB in them you would be incorrect , its quite common but even if you break the
law your still going to shoot birds that have healed up steel in them , so either way you need to prepare , serve and eat them differently. Yeah , even used to use a metal detector it worked to a degree but missed some and took ages to do well so I stopped

 

[griff]

Christ almighty,we know how to frighten ourselves.
Baba Yaga lives on in social media.

 

[25 Sharps]

Forget bouncy for a minute, the 22 lr would be finished if it was copper making up tge choice . However its not tge only choice copper jacketed zinc (another toxic metal ) this is already being produced for cf (tried it so far I haven't managed to get it stabilised.
22 lr not being available in something heavy , cheap and none lead chances for real ? Not vast I suppose but tgecreal limit is tge cheap bit !
I know a British manufacturer is already field testing none subsonic that is reported to be accurate but its not subsonic

Target use aside I suspect 90% + of the .22 LR rounds shot in this country are subsonic.

If I want to use a supersonic rimfire I’ll use one of my WMRs.

Very useful for fox but the main reason for their use (magnum rimfire with highly frangible bullets) is reduced ricochet risk over a .22 LR. This will go out of the window with copper.

Copper is toxic, zinc is toxic, lead is toxic but very suited to ballistically efficient expanding bullets and air gun pellets. Let’s stick with lead!