EU Withdrawal Agreement....

[oowee]

As for people being too lazy to work, i am not surprised in the least. Thatcher closed down most of Britains manufacturing, coal mines, ship building, heavy engineering, light engineering, a huge amount of the motor/motorcycle industry, machine tool makers, textile makers, chemicals etc etc, turning many towns and cities into ghost towns where there was little chance of work. 30 odd years later whole families have been reared with no one in the house ever having worked, they have been bred to never work. Who's fault is that ?[/QUOTE]

What? This is simply rubbish. These industries closed as they were uncompetitive. Because we could not run them at a level that supported our standard of living and for the effort we put in at a cost the market would support.

The EU despite all it's faults, by setting market entry criteria is one way to resist the inevitable decline in living standards that comes from competing on price. Without this protection and compounded by a lack of investment and modernisation will result in a more rapid decline of those parts of our economy that are forced to compete on price.

 

[Roro]

What? This is simply rubbish. These industries closed as they were uncompetitive. Because we could not run them at a level that supported our standard of living and for the effort we put in at a cost the market would support.

Why were these industries uncompetitive ? I would suggest it was because after ww2, the UK was basically bankrupt, Churchill had to spend billions to beat the nazis, and still there was massive debt. Industry was run into the ground during the war, everything was bombed out or worn out or both. Post war there was no money to reinvest. If businesses like mining and engineering are uncompetitive, how come the Germans still have coal mining, a massive motor industry, a large engineering industry, etc etc ? Because they had the marshall plan, in which the Americans paid them billions to rebuild. A reward for their second world war and genocide.

If the uk government had spent money and reinvested in industry, it would not have died, the trouble is the trade unions, red robbo and all that mob made things so difficult, it all degenerated into farce.

 

[shakey jake]

im only 36 but from what ive seen of uk politics and life people want everything cheap and to earn really good money while not doing the s##t jobs and pay low taxes, then blame the people that exploit our laziness and gread. bloody eu ruining oh country
shakey

 

[Chasey]

No need! God only knows how we ever existed as a country without the EEC. We must have had proper people in this country then, not those who want to be ruled by others. Still I suppose it's only to be expected from those who want that like yourself. Get some steel in your back not jelly.

We survived pre EEC because we had all the infrastructure in place. We joined the EEC because despite our existing infrastructure we would be better off in the EEC

Leaving the EU is the EXACT reverse

At that time we did not have the Channel tunnel so logistics were still limited, we also didn't have computerised stock management and control or GPS enhanced logistics.

It is totally pointless comparing that time period with today. We are so enmeshed in the EU and the frictionless borders now it is simply not a case of reverting to the old days.

I do not think back bone is required at this time. I think brain matter is a far more important requirement


As I keep saying, compare our situation to a referendum on hunting which we would obviously loose. Imagine the passion of people believing hunters are all bloodthirsty psychopaths. All hunters are evil and would probably murder anyone including small children if they could. THATS what the general public think of us. They hate us. Any argument about our contribution to conservation and how much we save the tax payer in terms of cull targets how much revenue we bring in in jobs and associated business. ALL that would be ignored regardless of he fact its true and inelegance would take a back seat to hart felt hatred.

Tats Brexit in a nutshell

No logic just hatred and bile

 

[Chasey]

So you think its a good idea for the EU to have the power to commit our troops to any conflict they chose you are totally deluded

Absolutly I do

Far better than letting Tony Blair decide, am I right?


To turn the question around, do YOU think we should be cowed by Russia China and the USA's military might? Do you think we are better served reliant on a EU army or hanging on the shirt tails of the USA and doing their bidding as we did in Iran and Iraqu?

 

[Chasey]

The EU is not a democratic organisation - yes there is an EU Parliament - but it is at best a fig leaf of democracy to hide where the true power lies - The EU Commission and their corporate puppet masters

You only need to listen to some of these power crazy commissioners to understand that they fully understand that the current manifestation in Europe has been arrived at by slight of hand

Several have openly admitted that had they been honest with the peoples of Europe - they would have been slung out long ago.

They know that there is a point where - even if the people(s) wake up - it will be too late - Individual freedom will be gone

We have one last throw of the dice - one last chance to extricate ourselves from a new European tyranny

Yes it will cost and I guess it will be disproportionately paid by the youth

However they either pay now or they will pay a hundred fold later

The Europien parliament is made up of elected MEPs

We in the UK elected 73meps pretty much the same as France and Italy and considerably more than any one else but Germany who has 93 because their population is 30% bigger then the UK

Just like in the UK the elected Members of Parliament form the democratically elected power base.

Despite Germany having more MEPs they dont get more votes. Germany Italy France and the UK all get 29 votes


The European Commission is headed by Junker has 28 members one from each member state.

Junker was ELECTED to his position as head of the EU commission

The Commission forms the rulings and laws and then they have to be approved by the democratically elected parliament

The democraticly elected parliament has complete power of dismissal over the commission who serve at their pleasure


After a ruling is passed through parliament, it goes for socio economic humanitarian environmental and ecological screening before being finally passed into a directive or law.

How thease directives or laws are implemented is down to the governments of the member sates


I am simply baffled as to how any one can consider this undemocratic?

 

[african jack]

He had at least had to get it through our parliament whether he was right or wrong HE WAS WRONG another corrupt remainer

Absolutly I do

Far better than letting Tony Blair decide, am I right?


To turn the question around, do YOU think we should be cowed by Russia China and the USA's military might? Do you think we are better served reliant on a EU army or hanging on the shirt tails of the USA and doing their bidding as we did in Iran and Iraqu?

 

[User00035]

The Europien parliament is made up of elected MEPs

We in the UK elected 73meps pretty much the same as France and Italy and considerably more than any one else but Germany who has 93 because their population is 30% bigger then the UK

Just like in the UK the elected Members of Parliament form the democratically elected power base.

Despite Germany having more MEPs they dont get more votes. Germany Italy France and the UK all get 29 votes


The European Commission is headed by Junker has 28 members one from each member state.

Junker was ELECTED to his position as head of the EU commission

The Commission forms the rulings and laws and then they have to be approved by the democratically elected parliament

The democraticly elected parliament has complete power of dismissal over the commission who serve at their pleasure


After a ruling is passed through parliament, it goes for socio economic humanitarian environmental and ecological screening before being finally passed into a directive or law.

How thease directives or laws are implemented is down to the governments of the member sates


I am simply baffled as to how any one can consider this undemocratic?

The European Parliament is the only "parliament" in the world which cannot enact, amend or repeal legislation. It is a rubber stamping shop and nothing more. And a very expensive one at that. The EP can talk about legislation and make proposals but MEPs have no powers to enact, amend or repeal whatsoever. Those powers lie exclusively with the unelected, self appointed European Commission, a body, let us remind ourselves, made up almost entirely of failed politicians who were rejected by genuine democracy in their own countries and sacked by their former electorates. It is staggering that anyone would mention the toothless cardboard European Parliament and democracy in the same sentence.

Equally staggering is the remainer's delusion that staying in the EU and maintaining a presence in its meaningless parliament somehow allows us to "have a say" over the legislation that is enacted against us. For one thing, as explained above, the EP has no control over the legislative process, but even if it did, the UK wields just 9% of the vote and British MEPs, though they have tried thousands of times, have never ever managed to stop, vote down or amend in any way a single piece of legislation that was considered harmful to our national interest.

Nothing in the ruling processes of the EU have been designed to represent or advance the national interests of member states. The system has been designed expressly to expunge democracy and dissolve national interest, not serve it.

 

[VSS]

Pages and pages of drivel. Seems like Chasey is the only one who knows what he's talking about.

 

[Freeforester]

"The EU despite all it's faults, by setting market entry criteria is one way to resist the inevitable decline in living standards that comes from competing on price. Without this protection and compounded by a lack of investment and modernisation will result in a more rapid decline of those parts of our economy that are forced to compete on price"

How might unfettered immigration of people willing to work (for less than our indigenous people can afford to) impact upon the economy, especially for those at the lower economic ant therefore most vulnerable strata? Perhaps it may result in a 'race to the bottom'? For that is the impact of literally thousands of economic migrants (as opposed to genuine refugees) landing daily on EU member state shores, quite apart from social unrest owing to increased pressure on housing, health, education and the general societal niceties our taxes pay for and are already hard pressed; just because the BBC deem it no longer 'suitable' news for wider dissemination, does not mean it no longer continues unabated.

The govt are hard pushed presently to annually invest £1,000 to £2,000 million into our creaking essential services, yet here is the princely sum of some £39,000 million of our own treasure heading offshore to Brussells annually, with less than half reappearing again (into projects that we are instructed to disburse these pickings on, replete with a blue spangly flag attached and re-badged as a 'EU funded project'...

It's not hard to see why the main stream media and the Eurocrats are keen to railroad the country into accepting such a poor and (at least to those in Northern Ireland along with others who hold the notion of the United kingdom as something precious, fundamentally important and to be treasured and preserved) unacceptable de facto annexation of part of our land - they need our money to keep the wheels from falling off their keystone (and doomed to fail) project, namely the Euro currency. Just watch what happens to the value of Euro against other principal currencies when the gloves do come off, never mind when the Italians decide they wish to determine their own budget, as opposed to accepting the diktat of unelected, unsackable, unaccountable apparatchiks such as Muscovi and his fellow dictatorial parasitic law-makers; the notion that the deal currently offered is the only way forward is a myth, and the prospect of withholding our subscription will certainly alter the terms of the deal to be offered.

Btw, How's Macron's popularity today?

 

[Chasey]

The EU has neither the back bone nor the ability to stand up to China etc

We in the UK - if we are forced to remain - could be supporting a totalitarian system that shares nothing of our beliefs, possibly against our bothers in the US and Canada

I know where my loyalties would lie - not with a franco - german stitch up

I share very little in terms of beliefs with the USA and if it was brother id disown the bible bashing bunch of self obsessed lunatics but that aside

I am struggling to make the leap from a democraticticly elected EU? to this Totalitarian state you speak off?

The USA is a federal state but I never considered them Totalitarian?

 

[Sauer90]

The European Parliament is the only "parliament" in the world which cannot enact, amend or repeal legislation. It is a rubber stamping shop and nothing more. And a very expensive one at that. The EP can talk about legislation and make proposals but MEPs have no powers to enact, amend or repeal whatsoever. Those powers lie exclusively with the unelected, self appointed European Commission, a body, let us remind ourselves, made up almost entirely of failed politicians who were rejected by genuine democracy in their own countries and sacked by their former electorates. It is staggering that anyone would mention the toothless cardboard European Parliament and democracy in the same sentence.

Equally staggering is the remainer's delusion that staying in the EU and maintaining a presence in its meaningless parliament somehow allows us to "have a say" over the legislation that is enacted against us. For one thing, as explained above, the EP has no control over the legislative process, but even if it did, the UK wields just 9% of the vote and British MEPs, though they have tried thousands of times, have never ever managed to stop, vote down or amend in any way a single piece of legislation that was considered harmful to our national interest.

Nothing in the ruling processes of the EU have been designed to represent or advance the national interests of member states. The system has been designed expressly to expunge democracy and dissolve national interest, not serve it.

And there is the truth - these unelected s i h t bags (junkers should mean something to the older generation) will rule over us one way or another.

 

[Hereford]

Pages and pages of drivel. Seems like Chasey is the only one who knows what he's talking about.

It’s like having toothache, is this thread - you know not to wiggle it but you just can’t help it!

 

[oowee]

So you think its a good idea for the EU to have the power to commit our troops to any conflict they chose you are totally deluded

They can't. If we were in they would not be able to unless we agreed it. EU army EU super power is a red herring. Co-operation inside or outside of the EU will reap benefits for us all. How do you think we will combat climate change, global resource management, security, standards workers rights immigration on our own. If we work in isolation we will work harder for less.

 

[oowee]

It’s like having toothache, is this thread - you know not to wiggle it but you just can’t help it!

so many little Britains to be disappointed where even a clean Brexit no deal will leave us with another 10 years to agree trade terms. With an external co-operation and alignment agreement being put in place at the same time. Why? Because it makes economic sense.
In between look at how many high grade jobs and above being created in Dit Defra and the like. Look at the jobs needed in border force. If the £350m ever existed it will be spent on admin.
Look on the bright side we might get some cheap cholirinated chicken in the shops and as small farms move to higher environmental schemes we could have some good stalking.

 

[User00025]

I just hope if we do manage to get out, you vociferous EU types will have the guts and courage of your convictions and go and live in Europe. You will be able to under the agreement so pretty please sod off across the channel and be good Europeans.

 

[enfieldspares]

As I live in the United Kingdom I do already live in Europe FH. Britain is part of Europe. Not mainland Europe but, just as is Ireland and just as is Cyprus, just as is Sicily and Sardinia and etc., etc., still Europe.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'm hoping for a rerun of Catweazel but not holding my breath.

Let's all get into the woods and celebrate we can still go there with a rifle. For now at least.

K

 

[enfieldspares]

New #258
I'm hoping for a re run of Catweazel but not holding my breath.

I don't think there'd be any likelihood of that winning any referendum. But if we got 10,000 votes in a You.Gov petition we'd be entitled to a Parliamentary response.

 

[Roro]

Junker may have been elected, but he unilaterally appointed his successor, martin selymar, aka "the monster". The very unpleasant arch federalist from germany. Not very democratic was it ? But again maybe because junker was elected, anything he does is "democratic" in its nature.