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Excess venison
- Thread starter Boghossian
- Start date
Sampo
Well-Known Member
One recent work I have come across is 'The Country Food Trust Charity' that feeds the people in need using game meat. I personally think that this is an initiative that puts the conservation efforts into the positive spotlight along with doing a good that many would struggle to oppose. I shall let you have a look at the website for more details - The Country Food Trust Charity
There is a meet happening in the Kent area on the 25th of this month (6pm - 8pm) with the intention of putting any game shot, shoot owner or game dealer interested to learn more about the charity and might be able to help us increase our impact in Kent. If anyone is interested, I can put you in touch with the right people. This is based on an email invite I have for the evening.
Efforts like these could be one of the way ahead to start changing public opinion and get talking on the positive impacts we make to the nature.
There is a meet happening in the Kent area on the 25th of this month (6pm - 8pm) with the intention of putting any game shot, shoot owner or game dealer interested to learn more about the charity and might be able to help us increase our impact in Kent. If anyone is interested, I can put you in touch with the right people. This is based on an email invite I have for the evening.
Efforts like these could be one of the way ahead to start changing public opinion and get talking on the positive impacts we make to the nature.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Bit of a fallacy/non-sequitur though, when/whereafter the lovely 'plans' of such works 'approved' turn out to be a bit of 'challenge' to the rhetoric, no?
I recently had the FC Environment Forester (who has been in the job over 20 years, but had not hitherto 'seen' what I've been taking them to task about for a somewhat longer period) around the local forest here, four dozen headwaters emanating from there would appear to contradict your version of 'the truth', but you are very welcome to come and see (and learn) for yourselves, I tend to find that showing people on the ground real examples of such incompetences somehow lends weight to ones position, after all talk is cheap, and it's a bit hard to explain away what is there before your eyes?
I fear these are examples of what anyone visiting from SNH/SEPA might consider to be "less than best practice/less than favourable condition", etc. Perhaps this is why they prefer not to?
This thirty year, the 'Water Rules' hae socht tae show the way;
- Yet aye, upo' their 'Ship o' fools' they're qwetly fil'd away!
Tae cap it aa' they mak great loss, an' for this we maun pay,
Whil' "clever men" wi' timber-dross in God-lik' style do play...
Plenty of better examples to show, as desired...
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foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Too much paper pushing ,not enough boots on the ground .
happyhunt
Well-Known Member
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Back to the original problem - isn’t the problem more the people who sell to the public than the game dealers?
In the same way that if the dealers do not buy from stalkers then you end up with a stockpile of dead deer, if the end seller doesn’t want deer from the dealers then they end up with a stockpile - which they have paid you for already.
In the same position would you keep buying for top money?
In the same way that if the dealers do not buy from stalkers then you end up with a stockpile of dead deer, if the end seller doesn’t want deer from the dealers then they end up with a stockpile - which they have paid you for already.
In the same position would you keep buying for top money?
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Ur right Dan but the supply/demand price link thing only seems to work on 1 side, why do they not also drop the finished price too if demand is low???
Or some sort of advertising or marketing campaign to increase the demand.
After all there getting the deer cheaper they can easily afford to drop end price and still keep the same profit margins.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
I'm at the sharp end of this scenario Dan, CB, and fifteen years ago I sold diced shoulder (trimmed of sinew and silver skin) at £5 per lb, and mince (no bloody or fragmented stuff permitted) at £4/lb; time has passed of course, and nowadays I get, er, £5 per lb diced, and £4/lb for mince. It's still 28% cheaper from me (and locally and sustainably produced) than the frozen NZ stuff from Tesco, and the carbon footprint ain't quite so visible, if this is of any consideration.
Maybe some of the others can offer their experiences, e.g. norma308, YokelMatt, Erik Hamburger? It barely reasonably works (assuming of course that willing to work, and you are fond of long hours) on an "All Vertical" model, but I would certainly not wish to go down the wholesale, high-volume, high-velocity route, whether this might be of help to others or not. Btw, in case you're wondering, it costs £36 to empty a wheeliebin of skins, scraps and bones, if you're going to do things properly (imagine for a moment how much bulk waste there is on a breasted pheasant?); I've seen plenty of the bigger concerns either go under or cease over time, so it ain't all roses, I fear.
Of course, we are just the wee "Fred in his shed" guys, and though I pay £3/kilo for anything I don't have myself which I only very occasionally take in (e.g. fallow or sika), I'm not sure it's worth my time doing this by the time you trim the excess fat, butcher and pack, label, etc. 50p per bird for pheasant and partridge, with double that for mallard. All in feather, and obviously at my own risk...
Maybe you should come and put on the apron and have a go, you'll find out it's not all profit, that I think is fairly certain...
Maybe some of the others can offer their experiences, e.g. norma308, YokelMatt, Erik Hamburger? It barely reasonably works (assuming of course that willing to work, and you are fond of long hours) on an "All Vertical" model, but I would certainly not wish to go down the wholesale, high-volume, high-velocity route, whether this might be of help to others or not. Btw, in case you're wondering, it costs £36 to empty a wheeliebin of skins, scraps and bones, if you're going to do things properly (imagine for a moment how much bulk waste there is on a breasted pheasant?); I've seen plenty of the bigger concerns either go under or cease over time, so it ain't all roses, I fear.
Of course, we are just the wee "Fred in his shed" guys, and though I pay £3/kilo for anything I don't have myself which I only very occasionally take in (e.g. fallow or sika), I'm not sure it's worth my time doing this by the time you trim the excess fat, butcher and pack, label, etc. 50p per bird for pheasant and partridge, with double that for mallard. All in feather, and obviously at my own risk...
Maybe you should come and put on the apron and have a go, you'll find out it's not all profit, that I think is fairly certain...
I think the problem with game birds is a different one. There are simply too many being released and shot. How many do you eat? Legislation is affecting the processors and not so many want to handle game. It's a short season with game birds, lots of work, often a higher percentage of waste, without the profits of reared poultry.
happyhunt
Well-Known Member
Couldnt agree more when in season but shooting does well out of season when the kids are very small is very "wrong"in my book with no justification what so ever
It seems deer now have the same respect as rats and are treated as such
FC and SNH should be ashamed of what they are doing
PKL what you are saying is simply not true as a full time contracted for various forestry companies and FC I have never shot any female deer out of season and never heard of any contracted doing so as for shotting 50 red a night that is the world of fantasy
Could you please stop talking rubbish to which uthers less informed may take as true
Could you please stop talking rubbish to which uthers less informed may take as true
Harry mac
Well-Known Member
Probably because the European market existed before the meat started getting popular (or "trendy"
) in the UK. Therefore the commitment to Europe is what's getting priority supply over the domestic market. I asked my game dealer years ago what market there was the the high-stacked trays of wood pigeon he had in his reception area. He told me that they all went to either France or Italy. Absolutely no shortage of demand for 'em. He further told me that all his venison was for export, he supplied none to the UK market; and he processes a lot of venison.Why should rats not have the same respect from people as deer. Why are deer put on a pedistal by some. The things that matters to me is i am justifed to kill whether it is a rat or a deer and i kill them humanely. That to me applys to all creatures, even rats
Does are in season now and i thought your visit to an fc larder was recent.
A former employer of mines when he seen the damage deer had caused and therefore cost said to me "if they are going to behave like vermin, treat them like vermin". So prehaps if deer were taking money out of your bank account you might have a different take on it
Matt Roberts
Well-Known Member
Now I’m on the other side of the fence I can see why the pool of dealers is shrinking.
I guess I’m in the fortunate position that my game dealing is a sideline and not my only source of income. If it was I’d have to seriously consider its viability... god knows what my hourly rate is but I’ll bet a European fruit picker would turn it down. You live and die by your reputation which means no short cuts on quality and lots of trimming even on a clean carcass. The extra time, wastage and clear up processing chest shot does have an impact. Pinned shoulders, quartering chest shots & poor gralloching technique result in more work for less yield which is tough on a small business. Even selling its is a problem sometimes as restaurants don’t tend to buy on a nose-to-tail basis and often want just haunch or loin and you have to find a home for dozens or forequarters! Restaurants seem to work on a 30 or 60 day invoice cycle which means you’re using income from one place to fund another like a bloody Ponzi scheme! Selling to butchers is even worse as they screw you to the floor on the price and take even longer to pay... or just go bust.
I wouldn’t stop doing it, for me it works the extra income is very handy and I get a lot of satisfaction producing good venison and meeting people passionate about stalking, eating venison or both.
jimbo1984
Well-Known Member
Well if an fc contractor says it it must be true
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
There is a great deal of costs that go into a beast after it is put in the larder, that is passed on at each level. If you are working for a company do you think that you are charged out at the same rate they are paying you? If the dealers aren't making money then there will simply be nowhere to sell to and then its a big problem. Yes, they have an element of control but everyone also has control as to whether they shoot deer, if you cant get rid of the carcasses then the logical thing is for someone to take on the stalking who can. Oil companies are the same - margins get too low and they stop producing.
Look at the deer you shoot, I shot 4 roe last week and they weighed about 15kg, 17.5kg, 20kg and just over 20kg in the larder - that causes a problem for sales because they are not uniform.
Collection, Processing, Waste disposal, Storage, Marketing and all the other operations have cost implications.
Whenever I see these debates I always ask the questions:
- If there is no much money to be made why are there not loads of people starting up in game dealing?
- If you did set up a dealers - how much would you pay for a beast per kilo?
- How do people think that they should be getting paid /kg for lardered deer?
Before you judge these guys at any point in the chain try to put yourself in their shoes - anyone can register as a food business with the right premises / training / inspections etc and sell direct - if you were to do this, how much would you charge for 1lb of diced shoulder / mince etc as FreeForester stated very honestly above. How many people think that they would be less than £5/lb? Based on the fact that they will also be paying their fellow stalkers more than £1/lb, FF is about £1.30/lb leaving him a margin of £3.70, in the jacket, with the bones etc. When you process a carcass yourself, how much does the skin, bones etc that you are left with at the end weigh compared to the actual packed meat you have? That is all getting bought at your £/kg rate, and then costing the processor to dispose of.
As to the solution - I'm afraid that i don't have one other than potentially setting up something along the lines of a co operative where a number of stalkers / estates put into the same chiller which would make it feasible to ship to the bigger national guys who would need to come further.
I'm not particularly standing up for the dealers of knocking the supplier / stalkers but unless we have a solution then we need to make the best of it.
Look at the deer you shoot, I shot 4 roe last week and they weighed about 15kg, 17.5kg, 20kg and just over 20kg in the larder - that causes a problem for sales because they are not uniform.
Collection, Processing, Waste disposal, Storage, Marketing and all the other operations have cost implications.
Whenever I see these debates I always ask the questions:
- If there is no much money to be made why are there not loads of people starting up in game dealing?
- If you did set up a dealers - how much would you pay for a beast per kilo?
- How do people think that they should be getting paid /kg for lardered deer?
Before you judge these guys at any point in the chain try to put yourself in their shoes - anyone can register as a food business with the right premises / training / inspections etc and sell direct - if you were to do this, how much would you charge for 1lb of diced shoulder / mince etc as FreeForester stated very honestly above. How many people think that they would be less than £5/lb? Based on the fact that they will also be paying their fellow stalkers more than £1/lb, FF is about £1.30/lb leaving him a margin of £3.70, in the jacket, with the bones etc. When you process a carcass yourself, how much does the skin, bones etc that you are left with at the end weigh compared to the actual packed meat you have? That is all getting bought at your £/kg rate, and then costing the processor to dispose of.
As to the solution - I'm afraid that i don't have one other than potentially setting up something along the lines of a co operative where a number of stalkers / estates put into the same chiller which would make it feasible to ship to the bigger national guys who would need to come further.
I'm not particularly standing up for the dealers of knocking the supplier / stalkers but unless we have a solution then we need to make the best of it.
howa243
Well-Known Member
I own a small park and have to regularly cull animals. They are all head shot, suspended, bled, gralloched and hung in a chiller for a few days before placed into the game dealers refrigerated van. No mess, no holes, just the perfect ( or as close as I can get) carcass. For which I get £2.50 kilo. I think we need to be realistic about the value of something shot in in the H/L, gralloched in the field, dragged to a vehicle and transported to a game dealer.
Matt Roberts
Well-Known Member
What’s really crazy is quality venison ending up in the dog food market. Ironically if it was just about the money this would make more business sense, similar retail price with none of the processing skill or red tape. Blood, bone... a bit of hair.... even better!
But what would this do to the reputation of the industry?
But what would this do to the reputation of the industry?
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