Expanding Ammunition

[User00025]

Just had temporary FAC &SGC through from Linc's Police, although my certs haven't expired yet. Rather disturbing and can't get through to them at present.
On the enclosed letter the following is written.
"Please note that as your firearms certificate is expiring the ammunition in question would become subject to authorisation by the Secretary of State under section 5. Therefore the permit/s allows possession of the weapons listed only. It does not allow possession of expanding ammunition.
If you have any expanding ammunition in your possession, this must be disposed of immediately to a Registered Firearms Dealer or Persons authorised to possess such ammunition"

This is a weird one and how the hell do I shoot deer without the correct ammo, any suggestions?

 

[ChrisWill184]

If your certs haven't expired yet I would have thought you would be ok until that expiry date - but wouldn't assume it.

If lets say that you had to dispose of the expanding ammunition due to this restriction so as not to get it back, would the Police reimburse you for A, the ammunition itself and/or B, the firearm dealer charge for holding any of your ammunition while the renewal was going through? If the police cannot issue a renewal within this time frame then surely it is their fault and should foot the bill if it was so required?

 

[Shootist]

How far in advance of the expiry date of your FAC did you submit your application for renewal. If you were in compliance with the suggested minimum time, I think three months, then by the date your current FAC would expire I would suggest you lodge all your S.5 ammunition, and any other licensable items in your possession, that are not specifically covered on the permit with your RFD at their normal charges. On receipt of your new FAC, assuming it covers the same items, you pay the RFD and claim the money back from the force. If they decline to pay then off to the small claims court.

 

[Ray7756]

Get in touch with your feo and explain whats happened and see if you can get it sorted so you can have expanding ammo, but you must comply if you dont get permissionfor ammo
its a daft way of allowing you the firearms but not the correct ammo
Ray

 

[Apthorpe]

Does your temporary licence have any condition on it specifying that the rifles be used for shooting deer?
I understand that they can't issue temporary licences covering expanding ammo, but it would be ridiculous issuing a temporary licence specifying that you shoot deer, but preventing you from doing it legally.

 

[Druid]

Get in touch with your feo and explain whats happened and see if you can get it sorted so you can have expanding ammo, but you must comply if you dont get permissionfor ammo
its a daft way of allowing you the firearms but not the correct ammo
Ray

Section 7 permits cannot authorise section 5 items so no expanding can be put on the permit. I don't know if the issue of a section 7 permit supersedes the FAC? One for the FEO I think. If so or if your FAC has expired then it's time to lodge your expanding away and have a break from shooting deer! Daft innit.
this is one of the unintended consequences of poorly drafted legislation and one of the reasons that expanding will hopefully stop being section 5 later this year once approved

 

[Orion]

This is a weird one and how the hell do I shoot deer without the correct ammo, any suggestions?

You don't.

The current exemption from the requirement for a S.5 Authority to possess expanding, AKA 'the expanding condition', can only be entered onto a Firearm Certificate ot a Visitors Firearm Permit, and no other document. That's why your S.7 Permit will not cover you for possession of expanding.

How far in advance of the expiry date of your FAC did you submit your application for renewal. If you were in compliance with the suggested minimum time, I think three months, then by the date your current FAC would expire I would suggest you lodge all your S.5 ammunition, and any other licensable items in your possession, that are not specifically covered on the permit with your RFD at their normal charges. On receipt of your new FAC, assuming it covers the same items, you pay the RFD and claim the money back from the force. If they decline to pay then off to the small claims court.

This is good advice, although I would add that if you have submitted your application in good time and the FLD are at fault for not renewing in time, then inform them in writing/by email of your intention to pass any storage charges on - it might just miraculously speed up the issue of your FAC!

 

[User00025]

According to info from Countryside Alliance back awhile "If a renewal was completed 8 weeks prior to expiry, an 8 weeks extension on my FAC is in order without a temporary FAC.
I submitted mine in mid Feb, it runs out on 5th June, so that is well in order.
I have now spoken to a girl in FLD at Linc's and her answer after talking to colleagues was "Send your temp FAC back".
Left hands and Right hands comes to mind, and if they can issue a temp cert with details of rifles on it, I query why not a proper one.

 

[TH4]

The temporary 8 week extension was passed as the new ruling a while back but as far as i know has not recieved royal assent yet so has no official basis in law.

 

[Flyer4u0]

If you are in England can you not use Amax ammo.

 

[mealiejimmy]

The temporary 8 week extension was passed as the new ruling a while back but as far as i know has not recieved royal assent yet so has no official basis in law.

The Bill containing that change has now received Royal Assent (which makes it an Act) but the necessary Statutory Instrument bringing that section of the Act into force has not yet been issued.
Until the Statutory Instrument has been issued and the date for that Section of the Act to come into force has passed, the old rules still apply

Cheers

Bruce

 

[paul o']

AMAX

 

[Blue400]

Just had temporary FAC &SGC through from Linc's Police, although my certs haven't expired yet. Rather disturbing and can't get through to them at present.
On the enclosed letter the following is written.
"Please note that as your firearms certificate is expiring the ammunition in question would become subject to authorisation by the Secretary of State under section 5. Therefore the permit/s allows possession of the weapons listed only. It does not allow possession of expanding ammunition.
If you have any expanding ammunition in your possession, this must be disposed of immediately to a Registered Firearms Dealer or Persons authorised to possess such ammunition"

This is a weird one and how the hell do I shoot deer without the correct ammo, any suggestions?

My section 7 from GMP stated " To possess a Firearm and or ammunition"
ATB BLUE

 

[Oh6]

My section 7 from GMP stated " To possess a Firearm and or ammunition"

Which does not mean that you can legally possess Expanding Ammunition, how ever much everyone would like it to.

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

gmp ,s do mine and another did,they stated permission to possess ammo,and as TFH,S we held those for a few months before the numpty,s gave us proper certs,which i still cant get my head around how can they do all the checks/visits/print off sect 7,s but cant produce a full cert on time, etc and not just gmp lanc,s and wales are doing it,as well

 

[Blue400]

Which does not mean that you can legally possess Expanding Ammunition, how ever much everyone would like it to.

I did ask the question on the security inspection visit and he said it will be on the section 7 and carry on as normal. But it looks like he was wrong to say that! atb blue.

 

[VSS]

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, my daughter was issued a sec 7 temp permit to enable her to use my rifle to do her DSC 1 shooting test. Ammo was listed on the permit, and, rightly or wrongly, I had it in writing from the issuing firearms dept that she could use my normal stalking ammo (ie, expanding).

 

[Orion]

......................................... Ammo was listed on the permit, and, rightly or wrongly, I had it in writing from the issuing firearms dept that she could use my normal stalking ammo (ie, expanding).

I'm pretty sure you now know the answer to that one.

 

[JTO]

On my last renewal, the temporary certificates turned up two months after my expiry date. I just carried on as normal, using expanding ammunition, back and forth to Bisley once a month, practicing on my own land..... The new certificates turned up about 8 months after the old ones expired.

 

[VSS]

I'm pretty sure you now know the answer to that one.

Who am I to argue with the FLO?
Whatever they put on the permit, it was undoubtedly their intention that she completed her DSC shooting test - in fact, the wording on the permit was "for zeroing and all activities relating to the DSC 1"