BenBhoy
Well-Known Member
Cheers mate- might try get there end of week. I fancy trying z lang. And the very generous @David.evans has lent me his chronograph, so be good to see what subs, longs & z lang are doing through my Annie.
FAC air instead of .22lr?
- Thread starter wildfowler.250
- Start date
My guess is you’ve not owned a PCP, much less an FAC one, but like everything else you belch out you’ve done bigger and better than everyone else before!
I have a tuned Mk 1 BSA superten, it gets a service every 3 years and is very reliable.
As for firing low power .22 up in the air (or air rifle slugs), the whole safety factor of an FAC air rifle is less about the lower energy and more about the poor BC of the pellet due to its Diablo shape. Because of the shuttlecock shape it loses energy very quickly, so drops quicker and hits the ground with less energy
Bearing in mind an air rifle above 12 ft-lb is considered ‘especially dangerous’ ballistics as follows.
18.1 gr jsb at 900 fps (33 ft-lb) drops to less than 12 ft-lb after 150 yards, and 1 ft-lb at 450 yards.
a 29.3 grain z-lang at 770 fps (38 ft-lb) is still at 12 ft-lb at 500 yards and still carrying 4 ft-lb (what used to be reckoned the limit for a rabbits skull) at 1000 yards.
For me if shooting in the air the air rifles or shotguns are the only answer!!
Bearing in mind an air rifle above 12 ft-lb is considered ‘especially dangerous’ ballistics as follows.
18.1 gr jsb at 900 fps (33 ft-lb) drops to less than 12 ft-lb after 150 yards, and 1 ft-lb at 450 yards.
a 29.3 grain z-lang at 770 fps (38 ft-lb) is still at 12 ft-lb at 500 yards and still carrying 4 ft-lb (what used to be reckoned the limit for a rabbits skull) at 1000 yards.
For me if shooting in the air the air rifles or shotguns are the only answer!!
Theobhan rapid 7 or 12 .
30yrs old PCP fac rated and literally one ragged hole with jsb hades ...& Christ they drop rabbits!.....what "thump" you get off of pellet hitting the quarry, just same as with a .22lr type thump.
amazing for rats, rabbits, branchers etc.... quiet and just as said already by some " clinical"
FAC air definitely has a place ..those that use it already have commented and said so ...id listen to them .... plenty will comment saying no need etc but youll find they harldy touched it or are commenting without actually using or used it .
folk comment about faff of air cylinders etc ....what about faff of trying to get specialized low power ammo etc for .22lr etc?
how many can walk into local rfd and pick it up ? not many ill guess?
i have far greater peace of mind ratting / rabbiting around farm buildings / back garden etc than i ever would with a rimmy ....
Paul
30yrs old PCP fac rated and literally one ragged hole with jsb hades ...& Christ they drop rabbits!.....what "thump" you get off of pellet hitting the quarry, just same as with a .22lr type thump.
amazing for rats, rabbits, branchers etc.... quiet and just as said already by some " clinical"
FAC air definitely has a place ..those that use it already have commented and said so ...id listen to them .... plenty will comment saying no need etc but youll find they harldy touched it or are commenting without actually using or used it .
folk comment about faff of air cylinders etc ....what about faff of trying to get specialized low power ammo etc for .22lr etc?
how many can walk into local rfd and pick it up ? not many ill guess?
i have far greater peace of mind ratting / rabbiting around farm buildings / back garden etc than i ever would with a rimmy ....
Paul
ColinBr
Well-Known Member
I can agree with the Theoben Rapid 12 in FAC. I love mine for shooting rabbits. Almost as much as my 22lr.
I have a soft spot for 22lr though, but definitely see the benefit of the FAC air.
I had a rapid for a while but found the balance didn't suit me, a bit too front heavy!
It depends on the range you intend to use the thing at. Ten yards, twenty yards or even forty yards? Only you the OP know.
At my late mother's house I kept a standard 12 ft/lbs BSA Scorpion T-10. Her garden was but twenty five to thirty yards long. The squirrels usually crossed the garden about twenty yards (if that) from where I chose to shoot them from. As therefore the pellet had only to travel that distance, and it was a know (almost to the foot if not the inch) distance it was quite adequate and a head shot although not penetrating through would crack the skull and embed in the side of the bone. I used Bisley Long Range Gold. (I am of the heavy for calibre school).
When my mother died I sold the BSA .22 Scorpion (unregulated as I feel that most good .22 PCP don't need it in that calibre) but kept a (regulated) BSA Scorpion T-10 in 12 ft/lbs and use it with Bisley Magnum pellets. I feel that gives me better penetration but, more important, also greater usable flatter trajectory. If I ever decided that I wanted an FAC PCP rifle I'd likely (IMHO go for either a .22 or a .25.
The idea of an ACCURATE over 12 ft/lbs .25 appeals. But the mid-ground would be a heavy for weight pellet such as the Bisley Long Range Gold in a s1 rated .22 PCP. Giving .177 flat trajectory but .22 pellet weight hitting power.
Oops! Now amended to be correct.
Verdict in: My 2024 "squirrel season" is now closed and I must regretably confirm the 22lr Jackson Squirrel Rifle hasn't left the cabinet once in this regard. Why would it when, out to 50 yards, a tree or ground-based squirrel is unlikely to survive an 18g lead pellet from my Daystate Air Wolf:
K
K
As others have said, 'Air' is effectively a hobby in itself and there is a lot to get ones head around. To that end, 22LR is simple and effective and avoids all that, so it really comes down to exact requirements and preference.
I'm waiting for my FAC re-grant and having been enormously enjoying shooting sub-12ftlb Air in the meantime, am going FAC Air over 22LR for my pest control needs this time.
I loved my 22LR with subs, but this time 22LR will be kept exclusively for target shooting as FAC Air is a lot quieter, so much nicer to shoot, a lot cheaper to run (although initial setup cost is a lot higher) and an awful lot more flexible. However, I already have both Air Bottle and Compressor, so the majority of the higher setup costs have already been covered.
A ~30ftlb .22 Brocock Pathfinder will cover portability and shorter range requirements and a ~65ftlb Ghost for longer distance. I've seen too many people have too many issues with the FX options to even remotely consider. The Daystate Parent Company 'electronic' options are appealing for their ability to customise output electronically on the fly, but I've again seen too many people have too many teething issues to want electronic over the more conventional non-electronic Brocock options.
The 𝐁𝐑𝐊 𝐏𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 has become the airgun of the year for serious pest controllers, where it's balanced blend of light weight at 2.9kg (6.4 lbs), ultra short length, folding to just 469mm (18.5 inches), and delivering a full UK legal 12 ft/lbs - up to 30 ft/lbs for export.
𝐍𝐨𝐰 𝐚𝐯𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐞𝐧 with a custom made backpack/ bag and super effective MF silencer.
More on the BRK website or see your local BRK stockist for full details.
brocock.co.uk
brocock.co.uk
Best wishes with your deliberations.
I'm waiting for my FAC re-grant and having been enormously enjoying shooting sub-12ftlb Air in the meantime, am going FAC Air over 22LR for my pest control needs this time.
I loved my 22LR with subs, but this time 22LR will be kept exclusively for target shooting as FAC Air is a lot quieter, so much nicer to shoot, a lot cheaper to run (although initial setup cost is a lot higher) and an awful lot more flexible. However, I already have both Air Bottle and Compressor, so the majority of the higher setup costs have already been covered.
A ~30ftlb .22 Brocock Pathfinder will cover portability and shorter range requirements and a ~65ftlb Ghost for longer distance. I've seen too many people have too many issues with the FX options to even remotely consider. The Daystate Parent Company 'electronic' options are appealing for their ability to customise output electronically on the fly, but I've again seen too many people have too many teething issues to want electronic over the more conventional non-electronic Brocock options.
The 𝐁𝐑𝐊 𝐏𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 has become the airgun of the year for serious pest controllers, where it's balanced blend of light weight at 2.9kg (6.4 lbs), ultra short length, folding to just 469mm (18.5 inches), and delivering a full UK legal 12 ft/lbs - up to 30 ft/lbs for export.
BRK Brocock Pathfinder XR - with folding stock
BRK Brocock Pathfinder XR - lightweight and compact PCP air rifle with folding and telescopic stock. Features integral power adjuster
brocock.co.uk
BRK Ghost | PCP Air Rifle system from Brocock
BRK Ghost - the high-power, accurate PCP air rifle from top UK airgun maker Brocock. With interchangeable barrels and onboard power adjuster
brocock.co.uk
Best wishes with your deliberations.
With respect, it needn't be. Other than finding a pellet that my Daystate likes and making a sling for it, I've spent less time 'tinkering' with it than any of my deer or rabbit powder eating rifles. That I've opted for a humble fixed 4-power Zeiss scope rather than a "Hubble" with spinning wheel parralex is further evidence of a simpler approach.
K
Loads are having problems with the ghost as well , specially as they can’t shoot slugs yet , although they are meant to be coming out with one , but they have been saying that for over a year nowAs others have said, 'Air' is effectively a hobby in itself and there is a lot to get ones head around. To that end, 22LR is simple and effective and avoids all that, so it really comes down to exact requirements and preference.
I'm waiting for my FAC re-grant and having been enormously enjoying shooting sub-12ftlb Air in the meantime, am going FAC Air over 22LR for my pest control needs this time.
I loved my 22LR with subs, but this time 22LR will be kept exclusively for target shooting as FAC Air is a lot quieter, so much nicer to shoot, a lot cheaper to run (although initial setup cost is a lot higher) and an awful lot more flexible. However, I already have both Air Bottle and Compressor, so the majority of the higher setup costs have already been covered.
A ~30ftlb .22 Brocock Pathfinder will cover portability and shorter range requirements and a ~65ftlb Ghost for longer distance. I've seen too many people have too many issues with the FX options to even remotely consider. The Daystate Parent Company 'electronic' options are appealing for their ability to customise output electronically on the fly, but I've again seen too many people have too many teething issues to want electronic over the more conventional non-electronic Brocock options.
View attachment 398628
The 𝐁𝐑𝐊 𝐏𝐚𝐭𝐡𝐟𝐢𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐫 has become the airgun of the year for serious pest controllers, where it's balanced blend of light weight at 2.9kg (6.4 lbs), ultra short length, folding to just 469mm (18.5 inches), and delivering a full UK legal 12 ft/lbs - up to 30 ft/lbs for export.
𝐍𝐨𝐰 𝐚𝐯𝐚𝐢𝐥𝐚𝐛𝐥𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐨𝐥𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐞𝐞𝐧 with a custom made backpack/ bag and super effective MF silencer.
More on the BRK website or see your local BRK stockist for full details.
BRK Brocock Pathfinder XR - with folding stock
BRK Brocock Pathfinder XR - lightweight and compact PCP air rifle with folding and telescopic stock. Features integral power adjuster
BRK Ghost | PCP Air Rifle system from Brocock
BRK Ghost - the high-power, accurate PCP air rifle from top UK airgun maker Brocock. With interchangeable barrels and onboard power adjuster
Best wishes with your deliberations.
I will keep both of my FX FAC guns which Ive had 6 years with out any problems & shot 10 of thousands slug & pellets over any other , they seem to have too many problems with them including daystate /brocock
jon2
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, shooting a .22 FAC air rifle at pigeons, roosting is not a safe thing to do. I bought my .22 FAC air for just that purpose, and having now owned it for a couple of years, I have never used it for that purpose. In my opinion it is not safe doing so. Typically with fac air you need a heavier pellet to stabilise (I was using slugs in mine). And although very accurate they are still a heavy pellet and you have to ask yourself that is launching one at 30 degrees going to be totally safe? In my opinion, it isn’t.
Get one by all means but I wouldn’t get it thinking you can launch heavy pellets at roosting birds. The normal lighter pellets wouldn’t stabilise in mine and I couldn’t hit a barn door with them.
FAC air will shoot 13 gr pellets in .22 with out any problems , long as your barrel likes them
jon2
Well-Known Member
That’s what I have said in my post if you read it. Mine doesn’t and I’d wager more than not that is the case. And I’d still question the safety of it irrespective.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
It’s pretty safe shooting into pellets into trees , even at moderate fac speeds., the chances of a spent pellet causing issues is as remote as you’ll get .
Maybe you’re next door neighbours trees might be frowned upon
Maybe you’re next door neighbours trees might be frowned upon
victormeldrew
Well-Known Member
+ 1 for Livelines, they have a large selection of airguns & are both knowledgeable & helpful.
Livelines and Tackle is a good place to go mate
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
So a 40gr bullet going at c1,000 fps will go about 1 mile and come down with enough velocity to kill.
A 30gr slug from going perhaps 800 or 900 fps - how far will that go?
A light pellet from a 12 ft lbs air rifle will still go 100 to 200m no problem at all.
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