Firearms with Virgin Atlantic

[HappyHunter]

Morning all,

I'm soon to be flying to the US with firearms with Virgin Atlantic (actually a Delta flight) from LHR.

I'm happy paperwork wise with things covered from both the UK and US aspect.

Just looking for tips and advice from those having done it. Virgin have been fantastic with the flights, but have struggled to provide definitive advice about flying with firearms over the phone.

- check in process and location
- flight case limits or restrictions (I've 3 shotguns & 1 rifle in one case weighing 23kg). I think this is fine with Virgin/Delta, but recall other companies having limits such as max 2 guns per case
- rifle bolt is in the same case
- no ammunition being taken

Kind regards,

HH

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Delta from Munich were never ever a problem their check in staff see it often enough but from gunshy UK???

 

[Dunwaters]

Morning all,

I'm soon to be flying to the US with firearms with Virgin Atlantic (actually a Delta flight) from LHR.

I'm happy paperwork wise with things covered from both the UK and US aspect.

Just looking for tips and advice from those having done it. Virgin have been fantastic with the flights, but have struggled to provide definitive advice about flying with firearms over the phone.

- check in process and location
- flight case limits or restrictions (I've 3 shotguns & 1 rifle in one case weighing 23kg). I think this is fine with Virgin/Delta, but recall other companies having limits such as max 2 guns per case
- rifle bolt is in the same case
- no ammunition being taken

Kind regards,

HH

You poor bastid.
Heathrow is the reason otherwise reasonable airlines won’t carry firearms.
I’ve personally had 4 hours preflight check in decay to a frenzied race to the boarding gate, last on and an ironic round of applause from the rest of the self loading cargo.
I personally won’t be back with a gun…ever.
Check the airline T+C’s read them and print them off, some will only accept 1 firearm per case. Some check in staff have their own interpretation of the rules which may or may not be in your favour. Either way, arguing is a waste of breath. They’ll get you to stand aside and stew while they process everyone else first.
Rifle bolts/ forends have to be separately packed, some will let you put them in your checked baggage, some won’t, same thing with ammo. A locked cash box in a daypack worked last time.
No ammo is a really good idea
Once your firearms are checked in, they get carried deep into the bowels of the terminal by a designated carrier. You go through security and meet them at the customs desk, identify the individual firearms and trot on to the boarding gate.
Finding the customs desk is not easy.
Expect no help, expect delay and obstruction at every single phase.
If you should sail through the process and end up with a couple of hours to kill before the flight and your sanity intact offer up a prayer of thanks.
I think that might be what the chapel is for.

 

[HappyHunter]

You poor bastid.
Heathrow is the reason otherwise reasonable airlines won’t carry firearms.
I’ve personally had 4 hours preflight check in decay to a frenzied race to the boarding gate, last on and an ironic round of applause from the rest of the self loading cargo.
I personally won’t be back with a gun…ever.
Check the airline T+C’s read them and print them off, some will only accept 1 firearm per case. Some check in staff have their own interpretation of the rules which may or may not be in your favour. Either way, arguing is a waste of breath. They’ll get you to stand aside and stew while they process everyone else first.
Rifle bolts/ forends have to be separately packed, some will let you put them in your checked baggage, some won’t, same thing with ammo. A locked cash box in a daypack worked last time.
No ammo is a really good idea
Once your firearms are checked in, they get carried deep into the bowels of the terminal by a designated carrier. You go through security and meet them at the customs desk, identify the individual firearms and trot on to the boarding gate.
Finding the customs desk is not easy.
Expect no help, expect delay and obstruction at every single phase.
If you should sail through the process and end up with a couple of hours to kill before the flight and your sanity intact offer up a prayer of thanks.
I think that might be what the chapel is for.

I figure it'll be quite the experience, hence trying to gain as much info as possible.

The Delta website shed a bit more light and seems 4 guns in 1 case is fine (maximum allowed).

Do you mind sharing where you found the requirement to store the bolt separately? I can't find reference to that on either website.

Cheers

 

[VSS]

Interesting that the Delta definition of ammunition only lists four items, all of which are inert objects:
Lead pellets
Arrows
Crossbow bolts
Bullets

(Although further down the page it does refer to "ammunition containing explosive bullets").

 

[zambezi]

advice from those having done it

I flew Virgin from Heathrow to Joburg last month. I have flown with firearms on Virgin before. Experiences very similar, and per online guidelines. However I note a specific ATF requirement listed by Virgin for the USA.

Knowledge Portal

Virgin Atlantic - Knowledge Portal

help.virginatlantic.com

Sequence I have experienced flying out of Heathrow is:

• Take hold baggage and rifle case to baggage check-in desk at LHR3 [Virgin occupy left wing of LHR3 building]. You will need to complete Virgin's firearm declaration form and probably pay a carriage fee [if not flying Upper Class]
• IIRC, charge is per case provided case does not exceed max limits. Not sure how you can check USA-specific parameters in advance [online chat facility links to staffers with zero firearms awareness. I know...I have copies of multiple pointless exchanges]
• If you need a definitive answer email this address, repeatedly: customer.care@fly.virgin.com
• All cases [including separate ammo case] are tagged. I have previously flown with two rifles in one case before on SAA, but usually just one firearm per case. For all airlines I've flown, bolt travels in rifle case, but separate from rifle.
• Suitcases go down conveyor to hold baggage handlers
• You are then directed to stand to one side of baggage check-in to wait for contractor to arrive in. This can take a while, but usually OK. He will check FAC, get you to confirm that case contain only a rifle and no additional solvents/tools/etc.
• Contractor takes rifle and ammo case, you proceed through standard passenger security with cabin bag and emerge at approach to duty-free hall. Hug the left wall after security and go round that first corner before duty-free. The Border Force hatch is there.
• Border Force staffers are not always immediately available, but contractor will have called them and they will arrive about the same time that your firearms do. FAC is checked against fireams at this point. Proceed to gate...

 

[HappyHunter]

I flew Virgin from Heathrow to Joburg last month. I have flown with firearms on Virgin before. Experiences very similar, and per online guidelines. However I note a specific ATF requirement listed by Virgin for the USA.

Knowledge Portal

Virgin Atlantic - Knowledge Portal

help.virginatlantic.com

View attachment 315129


Sequence I have experienced flying out of Heathrow is:

• Take hold baggage and rifle case to baggage check-in desk at LHR3 [Virgin occupy left wing of LHR3 building]. You will need to complete Virgin's firearm declaration form and probably pay a carriage fee [if not flying Upper Class]
• IIRC, charge is per case provided case does not exceed max limits. Not sure how you can check USA-specific parameters in advance [online chat facility links to staffers with zero firearms awareness. I know...I have copies of multiple pointless exchanges]
• If you need a definitive answer email this address, repeatedly: customer.care@fly.virgin.com
• All cases [including separate ammo case] are tagged. I have previously flown with two rifles in one case before on SAA, but usually just one firearm per case. For all airlines I've flown, bolt travels in rifle case, but separate from rifle.
• Suitcases go down conveyor to hold baggage handlers
• You are then directed to stand to one side of baggage check-in to wait for contractor to arrive in. This can take a while, but usually OK. He will check FAC, get you to confirm that case contain only a rifle and no additional solvents/tools/etc.
• Contractor takes rifle and ammo case, you proceed through standard passenger security with cabin bag and emerge at approach to duty-free hall. Hug the left wall after security and go round that first corner before duty-free. The Border Force hatch is there.
• Border Force staffers are not always immediately available, but contractor will have called them and they will arrive about the same time that your firearms do. FAC is checked against fireams at this point. Proceed to gate...

View attachment 315132

Brilliant. Very informative.

I was confused by the requirement for permission one week in advance of travel. I'd assumed it was a forewarning of getting the ATF stuff approved in advance and not a requirement of additional approval.

I have my ATF form 6 and must say i found the ATF excellent.

Virgin informed me of a £65 fee per gun per leg regardless of how they're packed. Let's hope it's per case!

Thanks very much.

 

[Dunwaters]

I figure it'll be quite the experience, hence trying to gain as much info as possible.

The Delta website shed a bit more light and seems 4 guns in 1 case is fine (maximum allowed).

Do you mind sharing where you found the requirement to store the bolt separately? I can't find reference to that on either website.

Cheers

I’m fairly certain that’s a basic ICAO security requirement, which means everyone should be doing it.
Firearms are supposed to be carried separately from the bolt/firing mechanism and ammunition, which makes sense.
You don’t want the firearm popping out on a belt the far side of the security check complete with the ammo and firing mechanism on the same dolly.
I’ll come back to you with the source.
The regs also specify that firearms should be carried “ separately”. Our national airline interprets this to mean that you can only have one firearm per case.
The big unknown is how both the airline and the staff at the check in desk interpret the rules.
As well as general airline conditions check for specific UK T’s+C’s.
In my case made my flight purely because if I hadn’t, they would have had to deal with me again, so they sucked up the delay as the lesser of 2 evils ( I know this because I had contacts and asked ).
Heathrow has a pretty bad reputation for handling firearms, tried it a few times, it can go smoothly or turn into an absolute sh1t storm denying totally on the person you deal with.

 

[Selous]

I had a similar experience to Zambezi with Virgin Atlantic at LHR. Waiting for the courier at the check in desk took a while then we had another delay waiting for border force at the customs office. Otherwise all was ok. The bolt was in the rifle case but not in the rifle

 

[Skinny Pete]

I have found the most common confusion was with ammo. I always carried it in a locked and secure box but some airlines insisted this was not carried within your luggage and had to be an additional checked piece of luggage. Even with the the airlines own T and Cs shown to the check in counter this still caused delays. Always double check your guns serial numbers match your licence .

 

[zambezi]

flying to the US

One other thing to be aware of travelling to the USA: the use of TSA approved locks on your rifle case is optional per TSA rules.


But...using TSA approved locks for firearms cases is actively discouraged by shooting forums as the number of folk who can open a rifle case is significant. Use the best locks you can source.

 

[zambezi]

I arrived back from Johannesburg this morning. Once again I flew with Virgin and it remains the best carrier for firearms in my experience.

There are several threads on this topic and all are worth a read. E.g.

Post in thread 'Jo'burg with firearms with Virgin'

Jun 11, 2023

I am just back from a trip to SA. I flew with Virgin from LHR to JNB and travelled with a rifle.

First up: this was my easiest transit of the SAP process at JNB ever. Really efficient, completed per the book. Temporary SA FAC issued in quick order. Sub 20 mins?

Transiting from JNB International [Terminal A] to domestic [Terminal B] is always a bit of a walk, but do-able in sub 15 mins.

Not all domestic carriers take firearms any more. Airlink carried my firearm from JNB to PLZ. They currently levy a charge of R575 per firearm per journey. [ammo goes free] R575 is approx...

• zambezi

Thread 'Travelling with firearms to RSA'

Aug 12, 2020

Covid permitting I will be heading to RSA in 2021. I have never travelled with firearms before so would appreciate advice from those who have. I think I understand the packing requirements (locked hard case, unloaded etc, ammo in separate locked hard case). I assume that on arrival at the airport I go to check in and let them know I have firearms with me and follow their instructions from there. Is this correct or do I need to do anything different?
Are there any airlines that are better to deal with or better to be avoided? I’m looking at direct flights from LHR to Tambo so probably...

• Selous

• 

But these are the three latest updates I would add based on this trip:

• After checking hold suitcase in at LHR3 Virgin desk, and getting rifle case tagged and passed back to you, you wait near baggage check in to be met by contractor who transports your rifle airside to Border Force. This next bit is crucial:
  • Make a VERY detailed list of eveything in your gun case to submit to contractor
  • Exchange phone numbers with contractor and remain landside
  • Gun case goes airside with contractor and is Xray'd. If anything is seen that is not on declared list, case does not transfer to Border Force/flight. But if you wait land side, contractor can return to you and ask for second declaration/clarification. Proceed airside only once contractor calls to confirm rifle is with Border Force.
• I never use any rifle permit agency to acquire the temporary SA rifle permit. The SAPs force at JNB have always processed my self-completed SAPS520 efficiently...until this trip:
  • My SAPS520 form was translated into a temporary South African FAC on first arrival at JNB in record time but, unseen by me, they set the FAC to expire a few days before my return flight three weeks later. Even though I supplied my travel itinerary+outfitter letter+SAPS520 with correct dates entered. To commence my return to U.K. after three weeks, it took a trip to SAPs management in CPT to grant waiver to Eagle Eye contractor to ship firearm to JNB+LHR without "valid" certification. Make no mistake, the error was all on JNB SAPs, but I nearly returned without my rifle.
• Lastly, flying into JNB you will arrive at Terminal A [international] and after collecting baggage you exit and bear right following signs to firearms office to do SAPS520 paperwork and firearm retrieval. Next:
  • If catching a connecting domestic flight, you take retrieved suitcase and guncase to Terminal B [domestic] airline check in and process is analogous to LHR except you may or may not have an escort to Eagle Eye [contractor] office for onboarding your flight to EC/Limpopo/etc
  • If you have to find Eagle Eye office unescorted, be aware that it has moved from the position it held previously mid way between check-in and airside security and is now on the immediate left of the domestic terminal airside security check in area/pen.