First rifle: steer me away from .450 Bushmaster?

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Cold Forged

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Hi all.

I'm putting together my first FAC application and I'm a bit stuck. Apart from a couple of .22 slots, I'm toying with the idea of a big-bore subsonic but can't seem to choose.

I've shot a club mate's .300BLK and enjoyed it, but now I realised I want bit more "thump".
Our club's range allows up to .455 (but people do shoot 45-70 which is technically .458) and muzzle energy limit is fairly generous.

Planning to run subs only for suppressed target/gallery/plinking, so recoil shouldn't be a huge issue, and I'll be reloading.

I've looked at .44 Mag and .45-70, but I'm not too keen on lever action and side-gate loading.
Considered Ruger M77-44 but reports of poor accuracy seem common.

At the moment I'm leaning towards .450 Bushmaster, but before committing I'd like to hear from anyone with real experience. Are there good reasons to avoid it, especially in the UK (availability, brass, mags, accuracy, general hassle)?

.400 Legend also looks interesting on paper, not sure how realistic it is in terms of availability.

Am I missing any obvious options?

Thanks in advance.
 
I had a 450 Bushmaster in an AR-15 for awhile . It was okay and I killed a deer or two with it . But I’d rather have a 444 Marlin . The Hornady bullet that’s used in the Bushmaster factory ammo is the same projectile I use in my muzzle loader sitting in a sabot . I suppose I’ve killed two dozen deer with that bullet in the ML . When I messed with the 450 I was also fooling with a friends AR in 50 Beowulf and another friends AR in 458 Socom . They all had a rather rainbow trajectory I thought . As to the 350 and 400 Legend I have no experience .
 
There are very good reasons why most stalkers use a deer legal cartridges for shooting deer.

If you are just shooting on ranges then I would check out what brass, bullets are available in your locality and at what price.

A lot of the American cartridges, especially those for the AR platform are really limited in availability in the UK, especially when it comes to factory ammo.
 
Have you located a rifle? Just had a quick look at Guntrader and there don’t appear to be any on there.

I’d have thought most that are manufactured are ARs, which makes importing one difficult (as to be legal here, it must have been built as a straight pull, if it was a self loader and has been converted it’s stuck as s5). I’m not convinced (but don’t know) whether any bolt guns are made for that cartridge but figure they’ll be rare as it’s really a concept for the AR platform.
 
Claret_Dabbler said:
Can I suggest that for your first rifle, that you buy the most conventional and available rifle you can find?
Bog standard Tikka in 308win or 6.5cm, or similar from any one of half a dozen other suppliers.
You can be clever some other time.
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Thanks for the voice of reason. This is why I'm getting .22LR trainer first.

As for 6.5CM I can't shoot that at my club's range nor military ranges around me. Bisley is quite a long way for me, comparing to 4 min drive to my club's range.

I was thinking about bog standard 308 but factory ammo still far exceeds my range's limit, so reloading is a must. And if I go deep into reloading I might as well choose the "forever caliber" that is fun to shoot and reload? At least this is my current thinking.
 
andyk said:
Have you located a rifle? Just had a quick look at Guntrader and there don’t appear to be any on there.

I’d have thought most that are manufactured are ARs, which makes importing one difficult (as to be legal here, it must have been built as a straight pull, if it was a self loader and has been converted it’s stuck as s5). I’m not convinced (but don’t know) whether any bolt guns are made for that cartridge but figure they’ll be rare as it’s really a concept for the AR platform.
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I'm thinking of Ruger American Ranch. There's also Savage, Mossberg and Bergara that make bolt action in 450 Bushmaster.

Will speak to my local RFD next week about what's required to order the Ruger. As you said, I don't see any UK stock.
 
Assuming you are going for a first grant of an FAC, as already mentioned, I’d suggest going for the ‘vanilla’ option & sticking to some tried & tested old favourites - a .22LR, a .223 & a .308W. Fancy cartridges often tend to confuse licensing depts as they don’t appear in the basic tables in the HO Guidance & hence get pushed into the too difficult to be bothered with category. For example at last renewal mine got all silly about granting authority for a .380 Rook Rifle because it didn’t appear anywhere on their lists - “computer says no!”

Last thing you want to do is p1ss off your licensing dept by requesting something that you may struggle to justify & which will potentially ‘mark your card’ with them.
 
Donkey Basher said:
Assuming you are going for a first grant of an FAC, as already mentioned, I’d suggest going for the ‘vanilla’ option & sticking to some tried & tested old favourites - a .22LR, a .223 & a .308W. Fancy cartridges often tend to confuse licensing depts as they don’t appear in the basic tables in the HO Guidance & hence get pushed into the too difficult to be bothered with category. For example at last renewal mine got all silly about granting authority for a .380 Rook Rifle because it didn’t appear anywhere on their lists - “computer says no!”

Last thing you want to do is p1ss off your licensing dept by requesting something that you may struggle to justify & which will potentially ‘mark your card’ with them.
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my first reaction was the same. what will the FEO think.
 
i have a 45/70 marlin dark series which i use nearly exclusively with subsonic ammo , it's a great little rifle and the ammo is accessible but you say you don't want a lever action so your choices will be limited in this country , maybe have a word with dave at valkerie rifles and get him to build you a straight pull in 450 bushmaster but i would make sure you have cases and reloading components to hand or you could end up with a very expensive ornament !
 
Donkey Basher said:
Assuming you are going for a first grant of an FAC, as already mentioned, I’d suggest going for the ‘vanilla’ option & sticking to some tried & tested old favourites - a .22LR, a .223 & a .308W. Fancy cartridges often tend to confuse licensing depts as they don’t appear in the basic tables in the HO Guidance & hence get pushed into the too difficult to be bothered with category. For example at last renewal mine got all silly about granting authority for a .380 Rook Rifle because it didn’t appear anywhere on their lists - “computer says no!”

Last thing you want to do is p1ss off your licensing dept by requesting something that you may struggle to justify & which will potentially ‘mark your card’ with them.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is a legitimate concern. The more I think about it the more questionable it looks - first time FAC holder gets an exotic caliber that can only be shot with manual reloaded ammo.
 
To be honest I would stick with the 22 lr, learn to shoot it well. Get to know your club and club members and try lots of different guns and try different disciplines etc.

Then you will be able to make a decision on what sort of rifle shooting you like and enjoy. Then you can put in for a variation to acquire the sort of thing you actually need and can support the variation from a position of experience.

Rifles when handled in the flesh are very very different to how they look in pictures or video. For instance I really don’t like shooting AR type rifles, especially not with piccattiny / mlock metal hand guards. They have all the subtlety of feel of an aluminium scaffolding pole with lots of sharp edges. I much much prefer the feel in the hand of wood and steel. Lever actions - I always find them too small, short etc.

You may have to pay for a variation later on, but it will be hell of a lot cheaper than buying something on a whim, taking a big hit on trade in / resale and then getting another variation to change to what you do want.
 
Heym SR20 said:
To be honest I would stick with the 22 lr, learn to shoot it well. Get to know your club and club members and try lots of different guns and try different disciplines etc.

Then you will be able to make a decision on what sort of rifle shooting you like and enjoy. Then you can put in for a variation to acquire the sort of thing you actually need and can support the variation from a position of experience.

Rifles when handled in the flesh are very very different to how they look in pictures or video. For instance I really don’t like shooting AR type rifles, especially not with piccattiny / mlock metal hand guards. They have all the subtlety of feel of an aluminium scaffolding pole with lots of sharp edges. I much much prefer the feel in the hand of wood and steel. Lever actions - I always find them too small, short etc.

You may have to pay for a variation later on, but it will be hell of a lot cheaper than buying something on a whim, taking a big hit on trade in / resale and then getting another variation to change to what you do want.
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Thanks, all valid points.
22LR is what I've been shooting past 7 months twice a week, I'm definitely getting one.

I still need to put something down in my FAC application, and I really liked my mate's Ruger American Ranch.

I might just put .300 AAC Blackout down as I know this is something I will keep.
Might also ask for 44 Magnum slot, and maybe in 6-12 months do 1-for-1 variation to 450BM if FLO gods allow.
 
On my first application i was granted a 45-70 without much issue, he did think it was overkill but its all down to how you justify your need for it, if you are just target shooting the FEO may very well say you dont need it or pick something more sensible

Additionally as others have said, good luck finding brass, bullets and even a rifle in that calibre, not easy and not cheap in the UK
 
I would apply for firearms for target shooting and a firearm for deer. Requirements for both are different in my view.

In terms of practice, if you can shoot a spring air rifle well you'll be fine with a .308 or similar deer legal calibre.

If you're doing paid stalking there will be an opportunity to 'check your zero' before you stalk and if you get or have got your own ground you should be able to find somewhere to zero.
 
Cold Forged.............I have not fired a .450 Bushmaster. However, I have fired a 45/70. It has a lot of noise, muzzle blast, and recoil, and is not particularly pleasant to shoot. A .450 Bushmaster is rare in the UK, so ammunition would be expensive and hard to source. I have a 375 H and H on my ticket, but because it is big there are a lot of restrictions that come with it. Keep it simple, a 30-06 is plenty big enough.
 
old 30-06 said:
Cold Forged.............I have not fired a .450 Bushmaster. However, I have fired a 45/70. It has a lot of noise, muzzle blast, and recoil, and is not particularly pleasant to shoot. A .450 Bushmaster is rare in the UK, so ammunition would be expensive and hard to source. I have a 375 H and H on my ticket, but because it is big there are a lot of restrictions that come with it. Keep it simple, a 30-06 is plenty big enough.
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I did shoot 45-70 in my club, it was fun. But I believe it has been underloaded to about 1/3 of the full load so recoil wasn't as bad, otherwise it would have probably been not as fun...
 
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