Fixed scope and red dot combination

[scrumbag]

Hi Folks,

A while ago I noticed something in Field Sports Britain that caught my eye.

Using a red dot in conjunction with a scope on scope a rifle:







The above are interesting ideas I think and have been done by the Tactical / sports shooters for a while. I’m not sure why you’d mount a red dot on your scope with a 1.8x / 2.4 / 3x bottom end as those guys did. I did however wonder about adding it to a fixed scope such as an 8x56 I wondered if that would make the scope a bit more flexible. The "Big Fixed" is great in the dark up a highseat but it’s rather rubbish at snap shooting a close target such as if you see something walking in to your high seat or on the way out.

I recently came across a video from Red Moose Hunting where he uses a red dot with a relatively high bottom end magnification:



And he seemed to have some success with it, particularly on the running boar target

So, I thought it might be worth a go and so set up .22lr as this is a relatively cheap way to experiment and doesn’t beat up the ears and shoulder.

I learned a few things from this:

1. The red dot for me is better mounted up by the objective rather than back by the ocular as I found my hand tended to hit it when using the rifle
2. The 3 o’clock position suited me best as the 1:30 / 45 degree angle was rather a chin weld (as was 12 o’clock)
3. I'm intrigued to try the 9 o'clock position to use with the left eye.

For offhand shooting, not bad with a crude zero (shooting for group rather than target centre)

Not perfect by any means but think worth trying more.

Anyone else have any experience with this?

Scrummy

 

[Morkai]

Very Call of Duty.

Problem with a reflex sight on the side is that unless you have the exact same cheek weld everytime like if it was your primary its difficult to ensure youre viewing it at the right angle for it to match your zero/POI.

It seems to work well on the AR platforms as the stock has that geometric shape that allows for a canted cheekweld.

The alternative is a dot with a flip magnifier.

 

[scrumbag]

Very Call of Duty.

Problem with a reflex sight on the side is that unless you have the exact same cheek weld everytime like if it was your primary its difficult to ensure youre viewing it at the right angle for it to match your zero/POI.

It seems to work well on the AR platforms as the stock has that geometric shape that allows for a canted cheekweld.

The alternative is a dot with a flip magnifier.

Think red dots are not so sensitive to head position. I found you could role the rifle ok with a sporter stock.

Magnifier and dot is interesting but not great at low light.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

 

[alberta boy]

I've seen a lot of 3 gun competitors using this combination . I gave it a try myself at the range and it did help when shooting rapid fire at close range with an AR15/AR180 . I think it's the ability to keep both eyes open while acquiring targets that makes the difference . Personally , I wouldn't use the combination on a hunting rifle . I like red dots on rifles like my 1895 Marlin 45/70 or a Slug gun , but I also use low power variable scopes that will allow me to shoot with both eyes open . A low powered variable with a red dot would do both jobs and be a bit less cumbersome as well . Tip of the hat for actually trying it out for yourself , it's the only way to actually see if a concept works . It seems to work well for you , thanks for posting .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

Think red dots are not so sensitive to head position. I found you could role the rifle ok with a sporter stock.

Magnifier and dot is interesting but not great at low light.

Best wishes,

Scrummy

Most red dots are not effected that much by head position . I tested that out myself with a few on my Marlin . I was quite surprised with the latitude a red dot gives you .

AB

 

[scrumbag]

I've seen a lot of 3 gun competitors using this combination . I gave it a try myself at the range and it did help when shooting rapid fire at close range with an AR15/AR180 . I think it's the ability to keep both eyes open while acquiring targets that makes the difference . Personally , I wouldn't use the combination on a hunting rifle . I like red dots on rifles like my 1895 Marlin 45/70 or a Slug gun , but I also use low power variable scopes that will allow me to shoot with both eyes open . A low powered variable with a red dot would do both jobs and be a bit less cumbersome as well . Tip of the hat for actually trying it out for yourself , it's the only way to actually see if a concept works . It seems to work well for you , thanks for posting .

AB

Pleasure matey.

I quite like variable scopes but for very dark nights and pigs under the moon, I still don't think much beats an 8x56.

I'm hoping this will make the 8x56 a bit more useable.

Scrummy

 

[scrumbag]

Forgot to say my shooting was from the following position

Rifle 2 hands on rifle (Forend and on wrist as needed for shooting)
Standing fairly square target, rifle held horizontal
Rifle lifted into shoulder for each shot

Scrummy

 

[@theroedeerguy]

No red dot required.
The buck lying 8 yards away was too close to use the scope on.
When they’re that close just turn the rifle on its side, look straight down the barrel and squeeze off on the trigger works every time.
I think a Aimpoint set up would be a real pain for getting snagged on stuff if you were pushing through thick timber.

 

[User00040]

Another tip is to use the two 'wings' of the objective scope cover when popped up.

 

[scrumbag]

Another tip is to use the two 'wings' of the objective scope cover when popped up.

Works if you have that kind of cover

 

[scrumbag]

View attachment 229911
No red dot required.
The buck lying 8 yards away was too close to use the scope on.
When they’re that close just turn the rifle on its side, look straight down the barrel and squeeze off on the trigger works every time.
I think a Aimpoint set up would be a real pain for getting snagged on stuff if you were pushing through thick timber.

for that close I get you, but trying to find something with 8x mag at 30 yds can be a bugger

 

[Sonicdmb73]

for that close I get you, but trying to find something with 8x mag at 30 yds can be a bugger

You’re right, down the barrel works within reason. But has limits.
My daughter does Airsoft she has a 45deg mount that goes on the rail. Actually works quite well for head position etc.
I can see it working, however a low mag with illuminated ret is probably better. I have tried both.
As a way to make an existing scope more versatile then it’s definitely an answer.

 

[308rws]

There is no wrong and no right answer, more a case of whatever works for you, your equipment and the quarry. Sometimes you may not have the time or opportunity to dial down to low mag.

For large quarry at close quarters in close country, my Near Zero is 35m, my Far Zero is 139m and my 45deg offset Red Dot is zeroed at 25m. With this set-up I can instinctively aim and shoot out to a Maximum Point Blank Range of 160m, which works for me.

 

[scrumbag]

There is no wrong and no right answer, more a case of whatever works for you, your equipment and the quarry. Sometimes you may not have the time or opportunity to dial down to low mag.

For large quarry at close quarters in close country, my Near Zero is 35m, my Far Zero is 139m and my 45deg offset Red Dot is zeroed at 25m. With this set-up I can instinctively aim and shoot out to a Maximum Point Blank Range of 160m, which works for me.

Sounds interesting. Could I trouble you for a photo of your set up?

 

[308rws]

In lieu of a photo, Scope plus 30mm tube picatinny mount or factory mount plus reflex minisight. I would strongly advise that you use a waterproof red dot minisight (designed primarily for pistols) and any mount must enable the red dot to clear your object lens.
Other makes/versions are available, the more compact and ergonomic with your scope the better IMHO.
Set-uplooks very similar to your trial configuration, but red dot less off-set. You should be able to acquire the quarry in the minisight without lifting your head off the stock, just by canting the rifle to the left.