Foxing calibre

[J_Borer]

Hi guys,

This has probably been asked plenty of times but curiosity and the fact I need to make 30 posts before putting a wanted advert out for some stalking I thought I’d shoot my shot.

Now I have a .243, cheep and cheerful Ruger M77 mk2 paired with a Leupold VX-3 with a moderator I paid £350, I chucked on one of dads old harris bipods and a sling and it does everything I need it to, lamping foxes and the morning stalks on the Red/Roe.

I want to now get a second rifle for a dedicated night vision rifle, something that’s cheap to run(I home load my ammunition) easy to get hold of, flat out to 250-300yards and will be enough to stop them without any doubt! It will be solely for foxes so won’t need to cover any other species.

Thanks

Jack

 

[20-250]

Nothing's really 'flat' to the distances you mention, but it sounds like another 243 would fit the bill.

 

[Triggermortis]

Same again, I have 2x .243’s and 2x .222’s, one day scope and one nv, works for me

 

[J_Borer]

Sorry, when I say flat I don’t mean zero it at 100 yards and it will be bang on at 300 but like the .243 I zero at an inch high at 100, bang on at 200 and only about 2 inch drop at 300! I’m trying to steer clear of another .243 as my local force don’t like giving 2 of the same calibre!

Nothing's really 'flat' to the distances you mention, but it sounds like another 243 would fit the bill.

 

[J_Borer]

Same again, I have 2x .243’s and 2x .222’s, one day scope and one nv, works for me

What do you prefer to use with the night vision the .222 or the .243?

 

[20-250]

What do you prefer to use with the night vision the .222 or the .243?

I know the question was directed at Triggermortis, but if I may... I have rifles in 222 and 243, amongst others, but the NV stays on a 222. I don't find the need to do much shooting at extended ranges at night. With good fieldcraft, NV and thermal generally allows you to get much closer than is often assumed.

 

[old keeper]

Sorry, when I say flat I don’t mean zero it at 100 yards and it will be bang on at 300 but like the .243 I zero at an inch high at 100, bang on at 200 and only about 2 inch drop at 300! I’m trying to steer clear of another .243 as my local force don’t like giving 2 of the same calibre!

Personally, I use a 204 but either a 222 or 223 will do the job.
I'm a bit surprised when you say your local force don't like giving permission for two of the same calibre. You have a perfectly valid reason (one day and one night set-up) I have never had a problem with Devon and Cornwall always finding them very helpful, especially if you have valid reasons for acquiring firearms.

 

[muddy42]

You are right you may get a few answers to this! In my view the choice of fox calibre is even broader than deer, because the law is more flexible and meat damage is not a concern. You say cheap to run and seem OK with second hand. To me that indicates 222, 223 or 243. All of which should be readily available. Dedicated NV is "good reason" to have a second 243, so you could persist with that request. Very little to choose between in the other two - just find a rifle you like then put in the variation.

 

[Malxwal]

222, 223, 22-250 most easily available, factory ammo etc.

 

[andychas]

Ive got a 22-250 Tikka as a dedicated nv and does everything I need, its emphatic on foxes with 50gn vmax! if you're after second hand? then Id try and find a solid ruger in that or in 223, 222, 204 depending on your preference and ammo availability. night shooting especially with thermal or nv is rarely at any kind of long range, the vast majority are under 200 and often a lot closer. Depends on your ground obviously, if you're regularly shooting across Devon valleys then theres an argument that the extra oomph of the 22-250 is handy, but then having another 243 would be just as good if not better.

 

[J_Borer]

Personally, I use a 204 but either a 222 or 223 will do the job.
I'm a bit surprised when you say your local force don't like giving permission for two of the same calibre. You have a perfectly valid reason (one day and one night set-up) I have never had a problem with Devon and Cornwall always finding them very helpful, especially if you have valid reasons for acquiring firearms.

I’ve found them very helpful also but a few mates have had problems applying for 2 of the same calibre even when one is for dedicated night vision. I have looked at the .204, did you give fox control as the reason for applying for one? I only ask because looking on the firearms law it says .204 is not allowed for foxes, we all know they do the job as well as most calibres but wandered if it was a grey area?

 

[J_Borer]

I know the question was directed at Triggermortis, but if I may... I have rifles in 222 and 243, amongst others, but the NV stays on a 222. I don't find the need to do much shooting at extended ranges at night. With good fieldcraft, NV and thermal generally allows you to get much closer than is often assumed.

If you don’t mind me asking? Do you home load or do you run factory ammo?

 

[20-250]

I’ve found them very helpful also but a few mates have had problems applying for 2 of the same calibre even when one is for dedicated night vision. I have looked at the .204, did you give fox control as the reason for applying for one? I only ask because looking on the firearms law it says .204 is not allowed for foxes, we all know they do the job as well as most calibres but wandered if it was a grey area?

There is no law which says 204 is not allowed for foxes!

 

[J_Borer]

222, 223, 22-250 most easily available, factory ammo etc.

They seem to be the go to 3!

 

[20-250]

If you don’t mind me asking? Do you home load or do you run factory ammo?

Both. Using 50 grain Sako factory ammunition at the moment, but only because I bought a stack of it and it shoots very well in my rifle.

 

[stubear]

222, 223, 22-250 most easily available, factory ammo etc.

.22 hornet is also really nice.

 

[J_Borer]

There is no law which says 204 is not allowed for foxes!

See the top row included is the .204, not appropriate for foxes and whereas other calibres there are exeptions there isn’t for the .204. I would also argue against this but it’s the only answer I can find!

 

[20-250]

It’s guidance- and flawed guidance at that. It’s not law.

 

[sir-slots-alot]

I want to now get a second rifle for a dedicated night vision rifle, something that’s cheap to run(I home load my ammunition) easy to get hold of, flat out to 250-300yards and will be enough to stop them without any doubt! It will be solely for foxes so won’t need to cover any other species.

Thanks

Jack

Hi Jack
I would go for a 223 - has all the attributes - including low recoil which is preferable for NV shooting - From my own experience of mounting my NV scope on my 234 and 6.5 CM - i sometimes missed the impact, especially when shooting off the bonnet of my 4x4. As said no cal is truly flat 250-300 yards , and if you do get one , you will probably by on your local rifle smiths Christmas card list but i know what you mean - flat as possible and good in wind too.

The lateral drift is really important , as you could get lulled into the trap of just shooting lighter and lighter bullets - going for max velocity, but these bullets tend to have low BC and can get blown about in the breeze at ranges over 250 yrds.

A few to consider

The 223,- shooting a 53 g Vmax (or similar) at around 3400fps - Zeroed 3/4 inch high at 100 - will a drop 2.1 inch at 250 yrds . the bullet will hit with approx 760 FPE . ( more than a 22 hornet at the muzzle)

22.250 does a splendid job at 300 yrds - sending the same bullet 300/ 400 fps faster - dropping 1.6 inches at 250yrds and and moving less in the wind too. It also hits with over 950 FPE. only real difference in cost is the few pence more in powder. As a foxing rifle barrel life isnt an issue. In years gone by , I was shooting over 300 fox per year, for many years. My favorite foxing cal is the 22.250 - so i am biased

The 20 cal are also perfect for that range - albeit the choice of rifles and bullets is less - the 39 grn SKB and 204 makes a excellent 300 yrd combo for NV.

Personally , give your criteria, i would go for the 223 - everything about the 223 is easy - fantastic selection of accurate rifles - different barrels twist and configurations - Ammo and all reloading stuff is easy to find and there is a huge selection of both cheap stuff and very high quality reloading components.


ATB
Alan

 

[J_Borer]

Hi Jack
I would go for a 223 - has all the attributes - including low recoil which is preferable for NV shooting - From my own experience of mounting my NV scope on my 234 and 6.5 CM - i sometimes missed the impact, especially when shooting off the bonnet of my 4x4. As said no cal is truly flat 250-300 yards , and if you do get one , you will probably by on your local rifle smiths Christmas card list but i know what you mean - flat as possible and good in wind too.

The lateral drift is really important , as you could get lulled into the trap of just shooting lighter and lighter bullets - going for max velocity, but these bullets tend to have low BC and can get blown about in the breeze at ranges over 250 yrds.

A few to consider

The 223,- shooting a 53 g Vmax (or similar) at around 3400fps - Zeroed 3/4 inch high at 100 - will a drop 2.1 inch at 250 yrds . the bullet will hit with approx 760 FPE . ( more than a 22 hornet at the muzzle)

22.250 does a splendid job at 300 yrds - sending the same bullet 300/ 400 fps faster - dropping 1.6 inches at 250yrds and and moving less in the wind too. It also hits with over 950 FPE. only real difference in cost is the few pence more in powder. As a foxing rifle barrel life isnt an issue. In years gone by , I was shooting over 300 fox per year, for many years. My favorite foxing cal is the 22.250 - so i am biased

The 20 cal are also perfect for that range - albeit the choice of rifles and bullets is less - the 39 grn SKB and 204 makes a excellent 300 yrd combo for NV.

Personally , give your criteria, i would go for the 223 - everything about the 223 is easy - fantastic selection of accurate rifles - different barrels twist and configurations - Ammo and all reloading stuff is easy to find and there is a huge selection of both cheap stuff and very high quality reloading components.


ATB
Alan

Definitely looking into a .223 as first choice now! Thanks!