Whats your preferred method when working a load, stick with full length sizing or a preference to neck size?
Full Length or Neck, Can of Worms
- Thread starter Blackwood Outdoors
- Start date
If it they are to be used on the same gun I just neck size so they are fire formed to the chamber.
I full-length size every time. For rifles with a straight pull bolt I understand that is best practice.
Muir has pointed out that the advantage of full-length sizing every time for every type of rifle, was that all rounds would be consistent. Even the first firing of new brass, because they would always conform to your particular set of dies.
Alan
Muir has pointed out that the advantage of full-length sizing every time for every type of rifle, was that all rounds would be consistent. Even the first firing of new brass, because they would always conform to your particular set of dies.
Alan
For straight pull rifles and semi autos you have to full length size or the rounds won't cycle properly.
For bolt guns I just neck size because then the case is fire formed to the chamber as in2stella said.
I only have one stalking rifle so no issues with mixing up brass, and then for our target rifles with the club we just keep the brass with each rifle and bag them up separately.
For bolt guns I just neck size because then the case is fire formed to the chamber as in2stella said.
I only have one stalking rifle so no issues with mixing up brass, and then for our target rifles with the club we just keep the brass with each rifle and bag them up separately.
Neck resizing only for me. I've never run into any problems, I thoroughly clean the brass have it nice and shiny and make sure the chamber is spotlessly clean obviously. Because this is the way I was taught and not having run into any problems I haven't really given it any thought. But now the question has been asked I am curious to know what Muir's position is on the two options, his and others. I will do some searching suspect it will have been covered before. Never does any harm to understand reloading in more detail.
Vipa
Well-Known Member
I had a discussion once with a very eminent (British record holder) Bench rest shooter some years ago about this very subject and he pointed out that rifle chambers are not perfectly concentric, therefore a fire formed, neck sized case will only give the expected & desired bullet concentricity effect if they are chambered in the same orientation each time.... which is nigh on impossible... The he was very much on the side of FL sizing each time thus negating any issues of orientation
Lee Collet neck size works well for me, and saves you lubing and cleaning cases (the biggest advantage IMO). Haven't got one for my 6mm though so I just full length resize for a good fit and that works perfectly well too.
I full length size being a a pro stalker and a tight Scot, I never need to buy brass get enough from clients and friends that don't reload,used to neck size my own and full length those that I was given, now I full length everything less room for error.
With few exceptions, I full length resize and when I do, I prefer Small Base Full Length dies which will resize the head back to speck as well as the rest of the case. Yes, I do this in part because I may have several rifles of the in the same chambering and I want the ammunition to be 'universal' to all of them. Over the years I have swung from wanting uniquely tailored cartridges for every rifle (in all manner, sizing included) to aiming for what might be said is building my own match grade factory ammunition clone. Good reliable ammunition i can count on to deliver good accuracy in most of the rifles I have of that chambering. I pay particular attention to uniformity of ignition, case prep, and neck tension. I have a quality powder measure so getting to a tenth one way or the other of charge weight is done without additional weighing (which is unnecessary, anyhow) and I seat to SAAMI OAL. Granted, I don't deliberately run brass fired in one rifle through another, but I have, and I can usually expect good results. Today I will be shooting ammunition I loaded for my Ruger American 5.56 in my CZ 527. The load is a good, balanced load and I expect that the CZ will shoot it well. As i have posted before, the latest Lyman loading books state that they find no benefit to neck sizing with regard to case life and accuracy and no longer recommend it as a rule. Since they have been supplying reloading equipment since before the turn of the last century, I'll give them some consideration. Were I to have but one rifle, I would make sure to FL resize as Deeangeo said: Just enough to get the bolt to close cleanly on the resized case.
I do neck size in some situations, but not as a rule.~Muir
(PS: And of course, you can neck size if you wish but you will eventually need to FL resize the brass anyhow....)
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nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I started neck sizing for my 243 but after a couple of firings I had some headspace issues so FL sized. Now FL size everything.
Full length everytime with rimless rifle case or straight wall rimmed cases.
Neck size (using a full length die and 'sooting' the shouldrr of a fired case to set the die) with rimmed rifle case....essentially thus .303 British. Although technically THAT method is better described as a partial full length size and NOT a neck size. Why? As the a full length die used thus both fully neck sizes AND partly resizes the case body if it contacts that part too, but doesn't re set the shoulder by more than a nominal ten thousandths of an inch or so.
I've Small Base Dies in .270 and .280 but have always found them overkill, for me, except for an initial sizing if I've bought someone else's fired cases in thst calibre. Butbthey make the best looking round for sure. Like others I rank reliability of feeding and extraction as a greater benefit that a few pennies saved on case life or a theoreticsl 1/4 minute of angle gain in accuracy offered, supposedly, by neck sizing. But this partial full length sizing as I described above s a useful half way house method. Especially on .303 British.
I think also it comes from where you started. I was competition shooting rifles at age seventeen and had an FAC at eighteen where 'lost' shots through a fail to feed wasn't a lost chance at an animal but a lost round away down range and lost points. A zero in fact for that score for that shot. So that meant that you ensured that you rounds always fed and extracted, and you got to at least fire that shot down range, whatever else it did.
Neck size (using a full length die and 'sooting' the shouldrr of a fired case to set the die) with rimmed rifle case....essentially thus .303 British. Although technically THAT method is better described as a partial full length size and NOT a neck size. Why? As the a full length die used thus both fully neck sizes AND partly resizes the case body if it contacts that part too, but doesn't re set the shoulder by more than a nominal ten thousandths of an inch or so.
I've Small Base Dies in .270 and .280 but have always found them overkill, for me, except for an initial sizing if I've bought someone else's fired cases in thst calibre. Butbthey make the best looking round for sure. Like others I rank reliability of feeding and extraction as a greater benefit that a few pennies saved on case life or a theoreticsl 1/4 minute of angle gain in accuracy offered, supposedly, by neck sizing. But this partial full length sizing as I described above s a useful half way house method. Especially on .303 British.
I think also it comes from where you started. I was competition shooting rifles at age seventeen and had an FAC at eighteen where 'lost' shots through a fail to feed wasn't a lost chance at an animal but a lost round away down range and lost points. A zero in fact for that score for that shot. So that meant that you ensured that you rounds always fed and extracted, and you got to at least fire that shot down range, whatever else it did.
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Shootist
Well-Known Member
An odd situation for me. Three rifles to consider, A Steyr Scout .223, A Savage BVSS in .223, and a Savage F/TR in .308. All rounds reloaded according to the rifle they're fired from. Lee dies throughout.
The Steyr Scout will accept neck sized rounds easily every time. Both Savage rifles, if I neck size cases fired from them, about a third of the cases will jam the bolt halfway down. This even if I'm just chambering the case on it's own. Trying to shift a loaded round jammed in such a fashion is a real bugger of a job. So, I have defaulted to full length resizing for all. Marks on the cases that have been jammed and extracted seem to indicate that the jam point is about the third of the case at the primer end. Micrometer measurements of the case seem identical though in both length and width at various points.
I have a Forster shoulder bumping neck sizing die that I have yet to use. It might be interesting to try out. I suspect that one of my main reasons for wanting to neck size is to avoid the case lubing, which I detest. Having said that I have recently started using Hornady sizing wax and I am a complete convert and will never go back to any of the others I've tried.
The Steyr Scout will accept neck sized rounds easily every time. Both Savage rifles, if I neck size cases fired from them, about a third of the cases will jam the bolt halfway down. This even if I'm just chambering the case on it's own. Trying to shift a loaded round jammed in such a fashion is a real bugger of a job. So, I have defaulted to full length resizing for all. Marks on the cases that have been jammed and extracted seem to indicate that the jam point is about the third of the case at the primer end. Micrometer measurements of the case seem identical though in both length and width at various points.
I have a Forster shoulder bumping neck sizing die that I have yet to use. It might be interesting to try out. I suspect that one of my main reasons for wanting to neck size is to avoid the case lubing, which I detest. Having said that I have recently started using Hornady sizing wax and I am a complete convert and will never go back to any of the others I've tried.
Moderate loads and neck size only
good for case life
no issues chambering
no lube in sizing, stages removed from reloading process
I do nothing else at the moment
But then by that token the FL die is not concentric either.......
if the chamber is not concentric having a perfectly concentric case and bullet may not make any difference either
What issues can neck sizing produce that FL sizing can't?
I see more people setting up Fl dies badly which does create a headspace issue
but your rifle chamber is the same every time too
arguably in the absence of lube and under 50-60,000psi, your rifle chamber is better and more efficient at resizing brass than a press and die.
good for case life
no issues chambering
no lube in sizing, stages removed from reloading process
I do nothing else at the moment
But then by that token the FL die is not concentric either.......
if the chamber is not concentric having a perfectly concentric case and bullet may not make any difference either
What issues can neck sizing produce that FL sizing can't?
I see more people setting up Fl dies badly which does create a headspace issue
but your rifle chamber is the same every time too
arguably in the absence of lube and under 50-60,000psi, your rifle chamber is better and more efficient at resizing brass than a press and die.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I was using the Lee collet dies. After the 2nd firing I had about 50% that wouldn't chamber. Since FL sizing I haven't had any issues. It's not just that issue though, I'm all about being as consistent as possible and for my peace of mind FL sizing gives me that from the first load to the last.
deeangeo
Well-Known Member
And that's the nub of it.
Learn how to set the FL sizing die properly to fired case headspace dimensions, adjust the expander ball/rod correctly and case neck/body concentricity problems will virtually be resolved, giving slick easy cartridge chambering every time and no penalty of shortened case life or indeed accuracy.
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