Using a neck sizing die on a 1917 6.5x55 Mauser cases?

[Howa]

I have been thinking of buying a neck sizing die for use on my 1917 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser cases in order to obtain more uniform neck tension and better accuracy.
I have just started to use a annealing machine and so I could change to neck sizing.
Any member have experience of using a neck sizer on this calibre case and how many firings before having to use a full sizing die to maintain the case body and avoid any loading difficulties?

 

[deeangeo]

Personally, I never neck size - been there, done that. Full length re-size every time to 'Fired Case' headspace dimension... by far the best way to go in my opinion.
Absolute consistency EVERY time.

 

[webley701]

Howa,
As Deeango mentioned - correct full-length sizing to suit your particular chamber is the way to go. By that I mean sizing the case just enough for free chambering but no more than that.

Neck sizing isn’t going to give you any advantage on the target - either at all or at least that you could ever detect with your rifle.

Neck sizing doesn’t in itself result in more uniform ‘neck tension’ compared to using a FL die. Correct use of lubricant & good sizing technique does that - also using a separate expander mandrel is often better than relying on the miserable little expander button in the sizing die.

Annealing (or not) is irrelevant when it comes to a decision whether to full-length or neck size.

Neck sizing does have utility for a few circumstances but generally & for your use in particular it’s not the best way forward.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

What brass are you using and are they all trimmed to the same length ?

I dipped my toe into neck sizing only and quickly gave up.
The reason l gave up was because l shoot two swedes and they have slightly different chamber sizes, my reloads have to fit both rifles when shooting them but with just neck sizing it quickly became apparent it wasn’t working.

Now I’ve returned to annealing after every firing and full length resizing, l also stopped lubricating the inside of the neck with my normal case lubricant as this was also causing problems.

Now I’ve ammunition without any problems, fits both rifles and is as accurate as l need it to be.

My neck tension is consistent even without the use of a mandrel l can’t justify going down that route.

 

[Milk no sugar please]

If you're annealing just fl size the case surely? Neck sizing only is false economy of time. You need to check each case will chamber before loading else you will be having a date with the kinetic hammer.



FWIW as @webley701 suggests, I use a Lee collet die with -0.002 mandrel after FL with the sizing button removed. I think it makes it more concentric and gives consistent neck tension when seating the bullets but I cannot measure this, only the results on paper.

 

[enfieldspares]

There is what is known as partial FL sizing that can be done with a FL Sizing Die a candle and a match or lighter. Take a fired case FROM YOUR RIFLE and using the lit candle well soot the neck and the shoulder. Now put the sooted case in your press and only partly screw in your standard FL die.

Operate the press and see how far down the case neck the soot has been removed. Keep screwing the die in and operating the press to bring the line where the soot is removed from further down the case neck. Repeat until all the soot of the case neck has been removed. But that on the shoulder is untouched.

Now screw the die in so that the soot on the shoulder is pressed flat. It will change from matte soot to semi-matte. Others say just instead turn the sizing die in a 1/8th of a turn and see if the same result is obtained. Pressing the shoulder back just enough (as indicated by the change how the soot looks) so that it has been set back from how it emerged when fired IN YOUR RIFLE.

You can if you wish screw the die in an set it back a little further if you wish. Either way you have now neck resized (and set the shoulder back) using a FL Sizing Die. Obviously what you haven't done is fully resize the base of the case where the case walls join the "web" that transitions into the case base. Lock the die in that position and you are now fully sizing the cases at the neck.

At the shoulder you are setting the shoulder back just enough to ensure reliable chambering IN YOUR RIFLE if the chamber is clean as it should normally be. This is fine for all day to day shooting and stalking but not if you are seeking to enact WWI trench warfare and anticipate getting mud in your chamber. As said it also won't have fully resized the case base...so you need to then try that sized case and maybe a half a dozen others to check that it will chamber OK.

As to using a factory made Neck Sizing Die this will IMHO produce no better a neck size that will the old and tried method I've just described. Neck sizing dies are not as far as I know machined to size the neck any tighter than standard FL dies size the neck.

 

[Howa]

Thanks for all replies.
A very experienced shooter advocated neck sizing to me in this process:

Anneal
Neck size
Use a mandrel after for the neck.

Previous to buying an annealer very recently I was getting out of five rounds, one or two in the bull and the others inside a 3" radius, that's using a good quality bullet, Amax etc.
I have now annealed some 6.5 cases, the full length sizing was so much easier, I was having problems in sizing before, finding it very hard, even to the extent of once pulling the pin out of the die.
So I will be now full length sizing the annealed cases and see what results I get.
It's a very accurate 6.5x55 Swede, so even if no more accurate at least the sizing should be so much easier.
Thanks for all replies, much appreciated.

 

[enfieldspares]

I'd add that you must as usual when doing the method I have written about still lube the case in the usual places and the usual manner.

 

[Tarquin]

I have been neck sizing for decades in a variety of rifle cartridges. The Lee collet dies e.g. which I think are fab.
Works for me. No faffing with lube. Occasionally I use a body die when the rounds get a bit "snicky" on chambering.
I can detect no difference in accuracy using either method.

 

[Laurie]

I have been neck sizing for decades in a variety of rifle cartridges. The Lee collet dies e.g. which I think are fab.
Works for me. No faffing with lube. Occasionally I use a body die when the rounds get a bit "snicky" on chambering.
I can detect no difference in accuracy using either method.

You're using very low-pressure loads then. Neck sizing works fine with mild loads and may be valuable in a rifle with a very slack chamber. I did this for years loading 6.5X55, 7X57, 8X57, 303 and 30-06 for historic military rifles, all with the Lee Collet Die. Apart from FL sizing when loading for a 'new' rifle, the only one I routinely FL-sized for was 7.5X55mm Swiss because of the relatively poor primary extraction on straight-pull Schmidt actions and no camming at all on chambering. (Schmidt owners who don't FL size and/or use full pressure loads with previously fired brass can be picked out by the bruising and calluses on the heel of the right hand caused by thumping the bolt closed!)

As soon as I tried this in a modern rifle (260 Rem) with standard pressure loads (not unduly heavy ones) I quickly ran into problems. Namely, neck-sized only brass sees he shoulder move forward on each firing, so you quickly suffer from 'negative headspace', that is the cartridge becomes a longitudinal crush fit in the chamber. After a couple of neck-size reload cycles, the reloaded cartridge would become slightly hard to chamber, followed by very hard bolt-lift after firing. This is caused solely by shoulder movement, not the case-body becoming tight through swelling, as seen by witness marks on the case shoulder and case-head surfaces after forcing the bolt open.

The only cartridge where it worked for me was the 300 H&H Magnum, a design that headspaces on the belt and has almost no shoulder to speak of. The problem there was body enlargement just ahead of the belt with full-pressure loads after around four firings. (Ordinary FL-sizing doesn't overcome that problem in any case as you need a special belted-magnum collet body die to touch the area immediately above the belt.)

There is an alternative to both forms - the Forster Bushing-Bump neck-sizer. It's a bushing type NS die which also 'bumps' the shoulder back, the amount as per an FL die through the die-body's position in the press. Expensive, has no expander so needs either neck-turned brass or subsequent mandrel neck-expansion, and is only available for a few cartridges.