Fully Digital Deer Stalking

[Heym SR20]

I get that technology may be useful for heavy culling purposes.

But I would suggest that heavy culling is a consequence of poor management over a number of years ,or a a consequence of massive changes in the locality- large areas being fenced off, housing going in etc.

I think it will be a very sad day when digital tech is the norm and deer are just culled as part of somebody’s job, in the same way as vermin.

I see nothing ethical with so called stalkers driving long distances, parking up their pickup shooting all the roe in a field at night regardless of sex or condition and then moving onto their next so called permission to do the same again.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
The simple fact is that technology advancement is relentless and as old buggers (like me) part company with their perches, our successors will inevitably take advantage of said advancement - period! Such is the way in all things - especially aesthetics.
It is a simple fact that much of the development of firearms and their means of hitting the target has been driven by war and so much has changed in that field in even the last decade - who would have imagined that an enemy could be spotted and promptly dealt with by dropping a hand grenade on them - all from the safety of your own lines perhaps many miles away? Some on this site have speculated (ironically) that drones could even be used to shoot deer as an unwanted extension of the march of digital equipment; gosh! how could that ever possibly occur? And yet there is plenty of footage available on t’internet showing not only drones fitted with shotguns being used as a counter-drone measure but now even being used to shoot enemy soldiers and live-streaming as it happens!
It is therefore not a great leap of imagination to substitute the once unimaginable flying shotguns with using rifles or even automatic arms - given the imperative to kill or maim as many of the enemy as cheaply as you can? This I fear will make it all happen.
I do not know how all these developments will eventually impact on our deer but if some beancounter ever calculates that a drone-bearing rifle and its operating costs is cheaper than sending in a squad of contractors for a week, even including the venison sales, then heaven help us and the deer left rotting on the glen!
Sooo a flight of fancy perhaps? Maybe so, until you sit down and look at the pace of change in say fox control in only a few years….

 

[Klenchblaize]

I would imagine the temptation to flick on an IR illuminator before dawn and after dusk is simply too much for some to resist.

K

 

[JH83]

I get that technology may be useful for heavy culling purposes.

But I would suggest that heavy culling is a consequence of poor management over a number of years ,or a a consequence of massive changes in the locality- large areas being fenced off, housing going in etc.

I think it will be a very sad day when digital tech is the norm and deer are just culled as part of somebody’s job, in the same way as vermin.

I see nothing ethical with so called stalkers driving long distances, parking up their pickup shooting all the roe in a field at night regardless of sex or condition and then moving onto their next so called permission to do the same again.

It’s a pretty sweeping presumption that’s what people do with digital. Some folks will always push boundaries, and will do so with new tech as they would prior.

Where I stalk reds often only appear in the last 20 minutes of daylight. I have lost count of the times that I could see them through thermal, and nothing better than an indistinguishable blob with high-end European glass. With an alpex I can gender, age a beast and place a bullet precisely long after my old PM2 had given up.

Maybe careful use of available tech will negate the need for contractors and night licenses?

 

[rem284]

We're all doomed! Everyone is free not to use technology if they don't want to

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I would imagine the temptation to flick on an IR illuminator before dawn and after dusk is simply too much for some to resist.

K

Self same people would not resist the urge to switch a lamp on either. Such is life. The rest of us will resist.

Not so many years ago, the old boy brigade, were bemoaning the fact that some people were using thermal to spot and it was unsporting, etc etc etc, oh the arguments that flared up on this very site over it.

Now, (nearly) everybody has a spotter. It's not going to change.
In 5 years, (nearly) everybody will have a digital scope. Those who want to break the law, will break the law, those who don’t, won’t.

 

[slider]

I get that technology may be useful for heavy culling purposes.

But I would suggest that heavy culling is a consequence of poor management over a number of years ,or a a consequence of massive changes in the locality- large areas being fenced off, housing going in etc.

I think it will be a very sad day when digital tech is the norm and deer are just culled as part of somebody’s job, in the same way as vermin.

I see nothing ethical with so called stalkers driving long distances, parking up their pickup shooting all the roe in a field at night regardless of sex or condition and then moving onto their next so called permission to do the same again.

There may well have been poor management in the past, but what has been done can't be undone!

Is the situation warrants a heavy cull then there is no point crawling around a pickung an odd deer off now and again. You need to use all the tools in the box or the landowner will simply get some else to do it.

 

[sauer]

I see nothing ethical with so called stalkers driving long distances, parking up their pickup shooting all the roe in a field at night regardless of sex or condition and then moving onto their next so called permission to do the same again.

Maybe you don't think it's ethical but that's maybe what the landowner wants ...their perogative ....
So where does it say if you use digital means your taking everything and out of season....

Those that do take everything clean in without the relevant licenses would do Same with a glass scope and a lamp.

Paul

 

[Heym SR20]

Maybe you don't thinks it's ethical but that's maybe what the landowner wants ...their perogative ....
So where does it say if you use digital means your taking everything and out of season....

Those that do take everything clean in without the relevant licenses would do Same with a glass scope and a lamp.

Paul

Difference between digital and scope plus lamp, is that digital - can’t be seen, whereas a lamp can be seen by all and sundry.

As for “its what the land owner wants” - well no its not actually. We have laws in this little land of ours. Shooting at night out of season without an appropriate licence is illegal. So to is shooting protected birds and animals.

There are plenty that do take everything and use of digital and moderators makes it all so much easier for them to do so undetected. To say it doesn’t happen is just sticking your head in the sand. One day the police might do some rural policing again.

 

[sauer]

If it what landowner wants and they get relevant night licence out of season licence then yes they can
Where did I say it doesn't happen. ?

The difference between being seen and not seen means f*ck all .... it's just technology and times moved in

The technology can be used legally and ethically...just as much as it can be used illegally and unethically


Paul

 

[Rural Management Services]

Difference between digital and scope plus lamp, is that digital - can’t be seen, whereas a lamp can be seen by all and sundry.

As for “its what the land owner wants” - well no its not actually. We have laws in this little land of ours. Shooting at night out of season without an appropriate licence is illegal. So to is shooting protected birds and animals.

There are plenty that do take everything and use of digital and moderators makes it all so much easier for them to do so undetected. To say it doesn’t happen is just sticking your head in the sand. One day the police might do some rural policing again.

Sorry but at no point did I suggest that I or other stalkers were using digital tech to break the law.

Just for clarity and the record

 

[paulbshooting]

Yep some good points been made. I use all the tech on the fallow where numbers are needed off the various permissions I have for crop and forestry. For the roebucks I just use glass, which is lovely, as was last week up north on the hinds with binos and glass non tech scopes.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

I get that technology may be useful for heavy culling purposes.

But I would suggest that heavy culling is a consequence of poor management over a number of years ,or a a consequence of massive changes in the locality- large areas being fenced off, housing going in etc.

I think it will be a very sad day when digital tech is the norm and deer are just culled as part of somebody’s job, in the same way as vermin.

I see nothing ethical with so called stalkers driving long distances, parking up their pickup shooting all the roe in a field at night regardless of sex or condition and then moving onto their next so called permission to do the same again.

I empathise with the sentiments but, for most of us, that's not the way it is.

"Heavy culling being a consequence of poor management"... When it comes to herding species - that would depend entirely on where you are in the country and what your neighbours - and their neighbours - are doing.

When crops and saplings are being damaged, being able to make full use of legal shooting hours with something like an Alpex (not with IR) is a godsend as, as many as 50% of your deer might be seen in the first or last 15 minutes of daylight. In that situation I would say that the better the image - the MORE ethical the shot - plus the aid of thermal to follow up.

 

[ASl sniper.177]

For strict culling work, where numbers count then I am fully digital. Alpex 4k and HE25’s.

The Alpex I can’t really fault, I personally find the daylight image good enough, I would happily take it on the hill, although this isn’t its strongest suit. In low light it is superb. I have spoken to a few who really can’t get on with them, but personally I think it’s a valuable tool. The only downside is the weight, which is significant.

The Habroks are really good, but as pointed out would be so much better with lower mag on the thermal channel. However….the pluses outweigh the minuses, the ability to have a ‘all in one’ package at that price point is frankly barmy.

When I stalk for pure sport I have an old wooden stocked rifle with a 4x32, and 8x42 binoculars. Horses for courses. A glass scope will always win in broad daylight, and reliability. I wouldn’t make the switch fully-I have 4 stalking rifles and 3 wear glass however the first one out of the cabinet wears the 4k

 

[HonestJohn]

 

[ASl sniper.177]

Personally,I have no problem using a digital scope for controlling deer. I have mate who posts on SD who uses a Swarovski Z8 2.5-18x56 scope for deer stalking,and he's very good,but even he will admit the Swarovski can't match the performance of digital at first or last light. My own personal set up is one rifle with Ziegler zp quick detach mounts with an Alpex 4k or Delta 4-24x50 day scope. With both combinations,I'll take both scopes with me. I'll admit, that if you're doing a lot of on foot stalking it might not work,but if you're shooting from a high seat or from a truck,where you can have both scopes with you,it's the perfect combination. P.s the Ziegler zp quick detachable mounts are brilliant.

 

[Scipio]

The digital hunting platform might indeed have its platform in the coming years. Conversely i suspect going more old school and simple in your set up might as well.
Bow hunting, where you need quite short shooting distances indeed, but which in turn likely permits for more hunting experiences, is already gaining popularity. At least here in Denmark.
Similarily i reckon so might hunting with irons, (for a minority) or using red dots or low magnification scopes. Again to make the hunt more diffcult, the distances closer and the experience more intense. A least for recreational hunters, who doesnt need to take deer down in such quanties that modern tech is clearly advantageous, but where the focus is more on the emotional stimulation that hunting can provide.

We shall see.

 

[sauer]

I get your point but bow hunting is illegal here

Small minority and as you say possibly growing are going down open / iron sights route ....

To be honest when I go out its for the freezer so I want results ..... I'm still connected ...still enjoy nature still rake time for sights and smells ....
Usually find I start off at a pace and within first 20 yards or so I mentally rebuke myself ...slow down... deep breaths ..take note of s.ells and then try to get "Into it"
Yoy can use technology but still be connected to what's around you / get the "emotional side ".... I'd even argue it let's ypu find nature easier to enjoy..... no rule says you have to pull a trigger..... think one chap ready said he takes his thermal spotter out when walking dog etc ... it's not that different from those of us who carry true pocket binos whilst dog walking g or beating ... for the same reason just different tech.

Paul

 

[Bowland blades]

Early days for me ! Alpex just applied to one of mine , small targets at range ? nope ! however you can see better into rough ground and cover in the gloming . Then use the IR .
really these things dont need more tech and photos - they need to be tougher and to allow easier and more accurate zero.
A proper guide to set up would save a heck of a lot of time

 

[Bowland blades]

I empathise with the sentiments but, for most of us, that's not the way it is.

"Heavy culling being a consequence of poor management"... When it comes to herding species - that would depend entirely on where you are in the country and what your neighbours - and their neighbours - are doing.

When crops and saplings are being damaged, being able to make full use of legal shooting hours with something like an Alpex (not with IR) is a godsend as, as many as 50% of your deer might be seen in the first or last 15 minutes of daylight. In that situation I would say that the better the image - the MORE ethical the shot - plus the aid of thermal to follow up.

yep , however going deeper into the gloming brings to mind the added difficulty in finding the dead deer or tracking it ( even with a dog ) . My alpex does i feel have that pulling you in .
ok on open fields with a dog but in a thick brush ?
Only a new user but deffo putting cautious ( i dont like leaving deer till break of light )