Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
The common thread being the ineffectiveness of the BASC and allied organisations in defending our rights Conor. I thought even a BASC zealot would have seen the point. I'll explain it better next time
Gloucestershire Police - Requiring Training before Shotgun Certificate Grant
- Thread starter disco_ike
- Start date
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would be granted access to any firearm without some form of training.
Were it down to me, I could make it a condition of any grant.
Cannot see why on earth that view would agitate some readers...
Even just from a financial point of view (although I appreciate some people seem to have more money than sense...)
When I started out shotgun shooting, I was looking for a Browning 525. Came across one on GunTrader being advertised by a guy who had bought it new, took it to a clay ground for a taster lesson, and called it quits after 25 cartridges...
Fail to see how it would be a problem just to say, okay if you want to get a licence, you need to provide a contact for either someone who's taken you out to shoot and can vouch for you (experience) or the local clay ground where you've had, say, 2 or 3 lessons.
I fully share your views on the way BASC has acted with lead shot, and have not held back from criticism. However, this doesnt seem like a fair place to air this. BASC have been effective at representing their members individually in licensing matters where police forces have acted unreasonably.The common thread being the ineffectiveness of the BASC and allied organisations in defending our rights Conor. I thought even a BASC zealot would have seen the point. I'll explain it better next time
Perhaps less successful in getting the police to systematically operate sensibly, but there's not much they could be expected to achieve on thst front.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Please start a new thread on the right to use lead shot. Happy to address queries and postulations therein. This is a thread on something else.The common thread being the ineffectiveness of the BASC and allied organisations in defending our rights Conor. I thought even a BASC zealot would have seen the point. I'll explain it better next time
The common thread being the ineffectiveness of the BASC and allied organisations in defending our rights Conor. I thought even a BASC zealot would have seen the point. I'll explain it better next time
Having just used them to expedite my own licensing delays, I've nothing but good things to say about the BASC firearms team. I do agree that there should be a big push to unify the behaviour of the forces.
He has current SGC and FAC holders willing to vouch for him but this was not enough.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Personally I'd be happy with something akin to the German jagdschein if in return the civilian administration of firearms control was distanced from a firearms act aimed primarily at organised crime and armed rebellions
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
Absolute nonsense and back-handers and an investigation into how this has been suggested comes to mind
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
This is Britain though, it wouldn't be done right.
There would be a political agenda twist somewhere!
Spear Chucker
Well-Known Member
Please accept my apologies Conor. Long day, fighting with the b***dy website trying to register 6 flaming bantams etc. when I could have been doing something I needed to do. I then saw Gloucs Police being an extension of the problem. My post was ill mannered, bad tempered and no better than you'd expect from an angry 3 yr old. Also not helpful to the OP who has a genuine problem. I'll go and sit in a ditch and watch does for a day or two.
ContinShots
Well-Known Member
100% agree. The "I don't see anything wrong with it" brigade are precisely why the firearms community in the UK is it's own worst enemy. Eventually they'll be impacted on personally by police and HO over creep and they'll be left scratching their heads wondering why there's nobody left to support them.
Loler UK
Well-Known Member
Perhaps this is the perfect example there are car dealers and bike dealers that will not sell you a high performance car/ bike unless you've had training, it's not the law but they consider it due diligence.
Loler UK
Well-Known Member
Yes the police can insist on training/ experience before and SGV is granted and there is legal precedent for it.
Quite frankly people saying there is no law requiring this need to educate themselves.
The law is vague for a reason, to stand the test of time allowing judges to make fair decisions. Yes apparent discrepancies in how we are treated by our FEOs are frustrating but it's their job to interpret the law and advise the cheif.
If you want to pay for the OP to go to court and argue that this is an unreasonable request to ensure public safety you crack on.
The law shouldn't be vague and open to interpretation. The law should be the same for me as it is for Joe Blogs over the county border.
I'm not exactly against mandatory training, so long as the law is clear and the expectation is clear on the applicant. At the moment. It's this clueless, "apply and see what they come up with" nonsense that is infuriating to many applicants.
Make a framework, set it in stone, set it in law, have it agreed upon by ALL parties. Be done with it.
I'm not exactly against mandatory training, so long as the law is clear and the expectation is clear on the applicant. At the moment. It's this clueless, "apply and see what they come up with" nonsense that is infuriating to many applicants.
Make a framework, set it in stone, set it in law, have it agreed upon by ALL parties. Be done with it.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
It's a shame the chief didn't listen to his officers regarding Thomas Hamilton.
I admire your faith
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I fear that you may be correct
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
He dare not, allegedly Hamilton knew about his paedophilic habits and he feared that he would be exposed. Didn't he get spirited off to Australia under an assumed name?It's a shame the chief didn't listen to his officers regarding Thomas Hamilton.
I admire your faith
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
With zero intent attached I would say a chainsaw or hedge cutter is inherently more dangerous than a shotgun under most common uses and requires no training to purchase or use by an amateur.For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would be granted access to any firearm without some form of training.
Were it down to me, I could make it a condition of any grant.
Cannot see why on earth that view would agitate some readers...
I think the reason that view may agitate some readers is because there is noting in law that says you need experience to have a shotgun certificate. In fact I know quite a few people associated with shoots who have an SGC simply to be able to move shotguns around or keep them under control. They do not shoot and have no intention of shooting so why would they need experience to have a SGC? The same would apply for a collector or anyone who wants an SGC while not actively using the shotgun.
I am all for training and I think anyone using anything with any inherent risk should take necessary precautions but I do object to forced training with no basis in law or logic (ie plenty more dangerous objects do not suffer such oversight)
Law is something that comes from primary and secondary legislation, or in some cases Common law. Legal precedent, often referred to as case law, if it has come from a court of record, is guidance on interpretation of said legislation which can still be superseded by another court. Case law is often, but not always, pertinent to a particular set of circumstances and not a generalisation.
It is not a FEO’s job to interpret legislation, that is the preserve of the courts, any more than it is your job to interpret any legislation.
Whilst training is certainly a good idea, if such a condition be imposed then it must be clear to any applicant at the very start of the process. The requirement must also be ethically and educationally valid. As others have alluded to there are many other countries that have just such.
Playing devils advocate, in all the years we’ve the firearms and shotgun legislation, how many deaths are caused on an annual basis as a result of lack of ‘training’? IIRC it is about two deaths a year from legitimate firearms users, whilst unfortunate statistically insignificant in a population of nearly 70 million.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
So who do we trust. No need to answer my friend, I don't trust, especially the state.
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