got stopped last night/legality of copies of your cert's

[roedeerred]

I know some officers can be a pain but there is little point in antagoniseing them most see sense if you keep your cool.
once I was stopped reversing out of my drive silly o clock AM when going stalking .
silly thing was I had rung them 45 mins earlier about thieves riding up and down village.
was not too happy as at 30 miles an hour said thieves would be back home sorting the loot
Deasiel and farm tools were missing.

 

[Lightyear]

I have patiently read through all of the replies on this thread and the one thing that must be true is that in Essex the police must have been instructed not to demand sight of an FAC because they are so behind in processing any applications, renewals or variations that there must be a great many FAC holders who are not actually capable of showing anyone the original document !

I send mine in with a variation request that was received by the office on 17th Feb, saw my FEO on 25th March and have just been told by the office that I will not get my FAC back for another 4 or 5 weeks !!!

Is the expectation that I do not go out shooting for the 9 or 10 weeks while they fail to deliver ??

Cheers & ATVB

Philip

 

[Whitebeard]

I have patiently read through all of the replies on this thread and the one thing that must be true is that in Essex the police must have been instructed not to demand sight of an FAC because they are so behind in processing any applications, renewals or variations that there must be a great many FAC holders who are not actually capable of showing anyone the original document !

I send mine in with a variation request that was received by the office on 17th Feb, saw my FEO on 25th March and have just been told by the office that I will not get my FAC back for another 4 or 5 weeks !!!

Is the expectation that I do not go out shooting for the 9 or 10 weeks while they fail to deliver ??

Cheers & ATVB

Philip

Im in the same boat Phil sent mine for variation on 21st Jan, FEO came out on the 20th Feb and i have been waiting since.
When i phoned the beginning of march i was told that they are working on a 10 week backlog and all applications are being processed in date order.
I have been shooting several times since, however if i were to have my guns siezed for not being able to produce my FAC, to say i would not be very happy would be an understatemant, both the licensing manager, chief constable and PCC would be getting a very stiff letter if that was to happen.

Ian.

 

[trouble]

Phone them and they will issue a temporary certificate so you can use your guns and buy ammo

 

[Whitebeard]

Phone them and they will issue a temporary certificate so you can use your guns and buy ammo

They will not issue a temporary certificate while current FAC is still valid.

Ian.

 

[teabag_46]

I was under the impression that a temp was only to cover in case of the official owners death etc. Plus even if one is issued, it won't allow you to buy ammunition.

 

[8x57]

I was under the impression that a temp was only to cover in case of the official owners death etc. Plus even if one is issued, it won't allow you to buy ammunition.

You are right a temporary permit will not allow the purchase of ammunition but they can be issued to a certificate holder who has submitted his FAC for renewal in good time but the actual renewal process has been delayed due to no fault of his own. They won't issue a temporary permit if the applicant or any of his referees fail to co-operate in which case you will have no alternative but to lodge your guns with a RFD.
Permits are normally valid for only a short period of time usually about a month but I had one issued last time I put my FAC in for renewal that was valid for 12 months, but in actual fact my certificate was issued only a few days later than it should have.

I was talking to a chap who is with Gloucestershire and the last time he renewed his SGC they issued 3 consecutive temporary permits all valid for a month. They also told him that he couldn't take his guns out of the county to shoot, his reply was that they could go to hell as he had shoots planned elsewhere. They make it up as they go along sometimes.

 

[teabag_46]

It wouls also seem slightly odd to me, if they did issue a temporary certificate; it would make me wonder, if they have the time to do a temp, why do they not have the time to just do your renewal/variation etc?

 

[8x57]

They only need to carry out basic enquiries in order to issue a temporary permit which in the case of a FAC holder are minimal, where as the full renewal process is more involved such as contacting or verifying referees.
I've just looked it up and they can issue temporary permits were variations have become delayed also.

 

[teabag_46]

It seems like we are going slightly off topic here, but.... if they still have to make basic checks in order to issue a temp, instead of the 'full' checkes required for a renewal, which will in a lot of cases, simply be reconfirming information from the initial issue, then they are doing two jobs, where only one needs to be done - just a tad inefficient!

 

[8x57]

Yes if firearms departments regularly need to issue temporary permits because they have failed to carry out the renewal process on time it is inefficient. That is why in their returns to the H.O. they have to state how many temporary permits have been issued and justify them. The H.O. and HMIC then pick up on this indicator of inefficiency and slap their wrists, hence the reluctance to issue temporary permits by some forces and all the bluff and nonsense about "Oh you will be alright with one of our letters, you don't need a temporary permit".

 

[haloutdoors]

I have had the police turn up on one of my shoots many times as it is bordered by roads on both sides and when lamping from the car it attracts their attention when they drive past, I always ring in to let them know I'm going but it doesn't always make it to street level officers.
I have never been asked to produce my licence to prove what rifle I'm carrying and I never take it with me as this permission is five minute walk from home and I would be only too willing to come and get it for them. I always carry it if I have to drive to any of my permissions and just leave it in the car. It just seems silly not to have it somewhere to hand ish.
I for one think the police do sterling work and doing a job I wouldn't want to do for less money than I'd be willing to do it for. After all I'm pretty sure not all of us would be overly happy about confronting a couple of burly chaps in camo with guns armed only with a can of CS gas. Every time they turn up I offer them a cuppa and biscuits and thank them for checking me out, as if it wasn't me I would want them turfed off of the land.
I have only ever had one officer who was really off and once his mentor had told him to "wind his neck in and calm down" everything went fine. The poor lad only looked about 12 and was his first day and he had the misfortune to bump into me and my mate both 17 stone skinheads/baldies. All camo'd up with a rifle each and loads of dead rabbits hanging off our belts. No wonder we put the wind up him a bit.
I for one am always happy when the nip in but only when they do their bit and leave quickly.
ATB. Hal.

 

[Mark_ B]

The short version here is
No law says you must carry your cert with you!
If you get stopped and can't produce it immediately, you risk having your guns seized until you do produce it.

When doing variations / renewals, ask about the time it will take and if its likely to be a while, hold on to your cert and agree to surrender it at an appropriate time.

 

[Whitebeard]

The short version here is
No law says you must carry your cert with you!
If you get stopped and can't produce it immediately, you risk having your guns seized until you do produce it.

When doing variations / renewals, ask about the time it will take and if its likely to be a while, hold on to your cert and agree to surrender it at an appropriate time.

Sensible post

Ian.

 

[Basil12]

You can hold on to your old certs while your renewal goes through so I have been told.

 

[British Shooting Services]

You can hold on to your old certs while your renewal goes through so I have been told.

yep, that is the way South Wales Police work. Sometimes they don't ask you to surrender the old ticket after the new ticket has been issued. I've got old tickets at home going back to the 80's

Ade

PS

MY last renewal was last October and I was informed in the renewal pack that I was not required to submit my current ticket with my application for renewal.

 

[Basil12]

Yeah spot on - they are issued to you and therefore are yours.

yep, that is the way South Wales Police work. Sometimes they don't ask you to surrender the old ticket after the new ticket has been issued. I've got old tickets at home going back to the 80's

Ade

PS

MY last renewal was last October and I was informed in the renewal pack that I was not required to submit my current ticket with my application for renewal.

 

[Plymouth Gin]

Haven't read the entire thread, but can tell you this. It is not a legal requirement to have your FAC with you, BUT a Pc can seize your firearms if you cannot prove your authority to possess.


It shouldn't happen these days, as a copper should be able to contact his force control room, who will verify current licensing status.


The problem with a photocopy is that it does not prove current status.

Imagine: you have an FAC, you copy it.

Then (rare, but possible) it is revoked. The Fuzz grab your ticket, but don't know you've taken a copy, of course. So if you present your copy to a copper, how does he know if it is in force ? The answer should be that he contacts his control room, but he doesn't have to - if he is an awkward sod he is quite entitled to grab your guns.

 

[Basil12]

PNC will only tell the Police over the radio whether or not you possess firearms. It will not say what type or how many. Simply a marker against your name stating that you possess.

Haven't read the entire thread, but can tell you this. It is not a legal requirement to have your FAC with you, BUT a Pc can seize your firearms if you cannot prove your authority to possess.


It shouldn't happen these days, as a copper should be able to contact his force control room, who will verify current licensing status.


The problem with a photocopy is that it does not prove current status.

Imagine: you have an FAC, you copy it.

Then (rare, but possible) it is revoked. The Fuzz grab your ticket, but don't know you've taken a copy, of course. So if you present your copy to a copper, how does he know if it is in force ? The answer should be that he contacts his control room, but he doesn't have to - if he is an awkward sod he is quite entitled to grab your guns.