Government responds to 2023 firearms licensing consultation

[Pete_Cambs]

Nah matey. They've already taken that hit to their value when BASC initiated their "let's give up lead" agenda in February 2020 with no consultation of its members' views.

Honestly I’m less concerned about steel, totally agree BASC were poor in how the approached things and the ban itself is not ideal especially given it’s a nonsense when you look into the real world issues and actual cases of lead poisoning in society but it is what it is and ultimately any nitro proofed gun will shoot standard steel just fine given the correct choking.

But if shotguns become S1 then the market will be flooded as there is no way I’d justify owning 7 guns of the same calibre despite the fact that all of them bar 1 do have a use case - wildfowling, pigeon shooting, driven game, walked up game, clay etc etc.

And if we get the worst of the worst and they remove your right to store them at home you’d see even more guns flood the market as many would either find it to expensive or to inconvenient to store them at a club as many clay shooters shoot at various different grounds. Id imagine many guns would just end up being destroyed.

If we get removal of right to store at home it’s not just the value of guns that will plummet, we all have safes worth hundreds and hundreds of pounds that will in essence be worth scrap steel value.

Outright bans cost money in compensation but making it as expensive, painful and difficult as possible to own guns means they get the same de facto result without a bill of millions in compensation payments.

Obviously we don’t know how much if any of this will come to pass but looking at the government we have and the absolute lack of fooks given so far about shafting minority groups that aren’t part of their voter base it’s hard not to fear the worst given the shooting community will not even get the public support pensioners and farmers have seen.

 

[Greenmist]

Here is the article that started the £400 firearms fees rise rumour:

Rural communities face steep ‘gun tax’ rise to boost police budgets

Campaigners warn that Home Office plans could see cost of new firearms licences more than quadruple to £400

www.telegraph.co.uk

Can't read the full article as I don't subscribe, my point being, suggest a high fee so we accept a lesser one without any protest, which so far appears to be going exactly to plan

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Can't read the full article as I don't subscribe, my point being, suggest a high fee so we accept a lesser one without any protest, which so far appears to be going exactly to plan

Try this then:

Rural regions are now facing further tax hikes in Labour’s so-called ‘gun tax’ - London Business News | Londonlovesbusiness.com

Discover Labour’s plan for a ‘gun tax’ and how it could impact rural communities. Learn about the potential increase in firearms licences and the heated debates it has sparked.

londonlovesbusiness.com

 

[Rake Aboot]

I particularly liked the way they said 80% disagree but the people who agreed are far more relevant so we will go with their opinion
Pricks

As an aside , a shotgun certificate is an entitlement in the UK is it not
No reason , justification required.

As for folk who keep upwards of dozens of shotguns ! Well they can **** off if they think that aristocracy are handing in 1/4 of a million quids worth off Boss, Purdey ,,,,

 

[Pete_Cambs]

I particularly liked the way they said 80% disagree but the people who agreed are far more relevant so we will go with their opinion
Pricks

As an aside , a shotgun certificate is an entitlement in the UK is it not
No reason , justification required.

As for folk who keep upwards of dozens of shotguns ! Well they can **** off if they think that aristocracy are handing in 1/4 of a million quids worth off Boss, Purdey ,,,,

I suspect the aristocracy / upper classes will be the only ones left if honest, they’ll have the money deal with any changes to the law.

I’ve always had a little niggle that they are the ones BASC are really there to protect when push comes to shove, I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Honestly I’m less concerned about steel, totally agree BASC were poor in how the approached things and the ban itself is not ideal especially given it’s a nonsense when you look into the real world issues and actual cases of lead poisoning in society but it is what it is and ultimately any nitro proofed gun will shoot standard steel just fine given the correct choking.

There are no cases I am aware of documenting lead poisoning in humans from eating small or large game shot with lead ammunition and there is no lead ban because BASC has been fighting such proposals for decades. And I agree with your point about standard steel - lot's of misinformation out there on that also.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I suspect the aristocracy / upper classes will be the only ones left if honest, they’ll have the money deal with any changes to the law.

I’ve always had a little niggle that they are the ones BASC are really there to protect when push comes to shove, I hope I’m wrong.

I can assure you that you are wrong. BASC has 150,000 members with an interest in a wide range of shooting interests. BASC is run by a democratically elected Council elected by its members:

About us

The British Association for Shooting and Conservation represents all field sports in the UK and has a membership of over 150,000.

basc.org.uk

This is what BASC stands for:

What BASC stands for

We are the keeper of our traditions and the guardians of our future. We are stability and we are change.

basc.org.uk

Maybe have a watch of this:

 

[webley701]

Nah matey. They've already taken that hit to their value when BASC initiated their "let's give up lead" agenda in February 2020 with no consultation of its members' views.

As much as BASC may like to think otherwise - there’s some validity to this.

 

[Pete_Cambs]

@Conor O'Gorman

In regards to my research on lead - it was a general look into cases of lead poisoning within the population and the common associated causes - predominantly in poorer parts of the population and mostly caused by lead water pipes, leaded paints in older houses and worryingly lead in cosmetic products. My view on how BASC handled it really centres around the apparent lack of prior discussion with cartridge manufactures or other shooting / countryside organisation.

As for my perceptions of BASC, they are just that - a perception and I’ll fully admit a lot of that is down to the perceptions of other people around me over the years…. Perhaps the is a PR image issue?

For the record I am a member of BASCs and have found both Ben in the east of England team and Peter Marshall in the training team especially helpful over the last few months.

 

[timbrayford]

There are no cases I am aware of documenting lead poisoning in humans from eating small or large game shot with lead ammunition and there is no lead ban because BASC has been fighting such proposals for decades. And I agree with your point about standard steel - lot's of misinformation out there on that also.

Sorry but lead shot toxicity and the apparent lack of risk assessments for steel shot are separate subjects. Ballistically steel shot is far inferior to lead and has been proven to cause ring bulges in barrels. I have seen such a bulge in a modern miroku barrel in my local gunshop, the damage was approximately 10" from the breach. I hope that should lead shot be banned a suitable ballistically superior substitute is found.

 

[Martiniblack577]

Will be curious to see if a legal challenge manifests against these proposals.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

@Conor O'Gorman

In regards to my research on lead - it was a general look into cases of lead poisoning within the population and the common associated causes - predominantly in poorer parts of the population and mostly caused by lead water pipes, leaded paints in older houses and worryingly lead in cosmetic products. My view on how BASC handled it really centres around the apparent lack of prior discussion with cartridge manufactures or other shooting / countryside organisation.

As for my perceptions of BASC, they are just that - a perception and I’ll fully admit a lot of that is down to the perceptions of other people around me over the years…. Perhaps the is a PR image issue?

For the record I am a member of BASCs and have found both Ben in the east of England team and Peter Marshall in the training team especially helpful over the last few months.

Thanks for the reply and good to hear you are a BASC member and getting good service from us. There is a lot of misinformation out there, even now. I cannot understand why some on forums like this and elsewhere on social media seek to continue to spread misinformation when I know that they know well it's all lies. What has actually happened is that for the last five years the shooting organisations have been working together to encourage a voluntary transition away from lead shot and single-use plastics in shotgun cartridges for live quarry shooting. The cartridge manufacturers in the UK and abroad continue to innovate and produce new products. The voluntary transition continues and there are no changes in law so it's your choice whether to continue to use lead shot for live quarry shooting.

 

[webley701]

This isn’t a criticism of BASC or any other shooting organisation for lack of effort - but it seems there are no receptive ears in the present government to any thoughts, proposals or recommendations that could be put forward by our sporting organisations - no matter how well reasoned or argued such points may be.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Sorry but lead shot toxicity and the apparent lack of risk assessments for steel shot are separate subjects. Ballistically steel shot is far inferior to lead and has been proven to cause ring bulges in barrels. I have seen such a bulge in a modern miroku barrel in my local gunshop, the damage was approximately 10" from the breach. I hope that should lead shot be banned a suitable ballistically superior substitute is found.

There is an ongoing phased voluntary move away from the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting, namely for the sake of the myriad bird species mistakenly ingesting lead shot as grit and suffering sub-lethal and lethal impacts as a result. This is an animal welfare and conservation concern that we should be taking responsibility for amidst public interest in nature recovery.

Wildfowlers have been using lead alternatives for over two decades. As regards your own concerns I would recommend attending a BASC workshop with your own guns.

See events labelled 'try sustainable ammunition day' here:

Home

The original deer management qualification. Evolved. Discover the UK’s only 100% Online DSC1 Theory with BASC. Enrol now GSC1 Online Assessments Want to improve your knowledge of game shooting? Book your course All upcoming events

events.basc.org.uk

 

[webley701]

I think we now have a fair idea what will happen to the generally well supported proposal that moderators are taken ‘off ticket’.

 

[Pete_Cambs]

There is an ongoing phased voluntary move away from the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting, namely for the sake of the myriad bird species mistakenly ingesting lead shot as grit and suffering sub-lethal and lethal impacts as a result. This is an animal welfare and conservation concern that we should be taking responsibility for amidst public interest in nature recovery.

Wildfowlers have been using lead alternatives for over two decades. As regards your own concerns I would recommend attending a BASC workshop with your own guns.

See events labelled 'try sustainable ammunition day' here:

Home

The original deer management qualification. Evolved. Discover the UK’s only 100% Online DSC1 Theory with BASC. Enrol now GSC1 Online Assessments Want to improve your knowledge of game shooting? Book your course All upcoming events

events.basc.org.uk

But it’s going to impact clay shooting as well now isn’t it and the issue here is a very real risk of ricochet but more over the cost of cartridges will go up and we could well see a number of clubs close if they have a restriction on plastic wad.

Talking of plastic wads…. That’s my next concern and I hope BASC will robustly defend any attempt to ban plastic wads at least until a proper viable cost effective alternative.

Of course we may all not have to worry about that anyway as we’ve been legislated out of existence in other ways.

 

[Kane01]

I think we now have a fair idea what will happen to the generally well supported proposal that moderators are taken ‘off ticket’.

I was very pessimistic about that proposal from the start, the main reason I think the police/home office were prepared to back it was because it could be duked to look like a significant decrease in the number of firearms held, but now they can do it just by pricing people out.

 

[shoppe]

As Webley's says, there is basically no one listening to us or that's what many shooters at ground level believe.
It's all very well, taking some MPs out to show them what country sports and shooting is about.
But it appears to do no good?
Many shooters believe ( rightly or wrongly) this is a done deal.
Why?
It's all very well writing about it in the basc magazine but you preaching to the converted!

This isn’t a criticism of BASC or any other shooting organisation for lack of effort - but it seems there are no receptive ears in the present government to any thoughts, proposals or recommendations that could be put forward by our sporting organisations - no matter how well reasoned or argued such points may be

 

[Wmjas]

I often find it useful to compare firearms licensing and driver licensing in my head when viewing potential or current legislation. If you use it in this context as far as I can work out it would give the police the option of barging into your house and removing your keys because they think you might go to the pub later and will drive home. Or have I over simplified it? Oh and also your car might have to be stored at a safe place away from your home as you can’t be trusted to stop someone stealing it. Can you imagine the uproar if they were to even consider it?

I am genuinely blown away by the “80% responded no” that they ignored. Especially coming from the government that campaigned on being a government that would listen to its constituents.

 

[webley701]

I am genuinely blown away by the “80% responded no” that they ignored. Especially coming from the government that campaigned on being a government that would listen to its constituents.

I think the sentiments towards the electorate so eloquently articulated by (suspended) MP’s Andrew Gwynne and Oliver Ryan - although perhaps at the extreme end - are still reflective of the true attitude of government / civil service towards the ‘plebs’.