You know all the facts concerning conspiracy, but there are few of those that have been proven as such. What you lack is the knowledge of what actually happens and not by a “tiny minority”. Maybe less article critiquing and more “on the ground“ knowledge would strengthen your ”opinion”.
Guardian - Golden Eagle Tag found near Grousemoor - who are these idiots ?
- Thread starter kes
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Irish Bob
Well-Known Member
I think you are in a state of denial.
If you look which way the wind is blowing it isn’t in favour of field sports.
I can’t see driven grouse shooting surviving the next labour government, which by the looks of things is about four years away.
Time to put the house in order.
If you look which way the wind is blowing it isn’t in favour of field sports.
I can’t see driven grouse shooting surviving the next labour government, which by the looks of things is about four years away.
Time to put the house in order.
geoffw
Well-Known Member
This whole issue is similar to government, football, business or any other activity.
It's ok saying this has to be sorted out by the shooting fraternity. You have about as much chance as any member of the above examples sorting out the corruption in their respective areas.
Some people will never change and that includes the fabricators who invent the deaths of non existent raptors or have a few in the fridge to use when necessary. There is definitely guilt on all sides but some people just want to make one look worse than the other, even those among our ranks are guilty of trying to castigate ourselves.
It's ok saying this has to be sorted out by the shooting fraternity. You have about as much chance as any member of the above examples sorting out the corruption in their respective areas.
Some people will never change and that includes the fabricators who invent the deaths of non existent raptors or have a few in the fridge to use when necessary. There is definitely guilt on all sides but some people just want to make one look worse than the other, even those among our ranks are guilty of trying to castigate ourselves.
geoffw
Well-Known Member
Sadly I suspect you're right, but having recently read "The Scottish Highland Estate" by Michael Wigan and the interconnectivity of fieldsports with the land up there (written in 1990 but still fascinating and relevant reading) I'm not sure for the future of the Scottish highlands without...
Mick9abf
Well-Known Member
It’s quite simple. The end goal, in Scotland, for the SNP (Scottish Labour are not even a threat up here anymore), is to make estates so unprofitable that owners through in the towel or they compulsorily purchase the ground under the guise of community buyouts and then plant trees and do away with field sports as they peddle it as a ‘toffs pastime’ and go on about absentee English lairds to get the knuckle draggers stirred up.
Apparently though, it appears with their land reform act it’s ok to allow certain nationalities to buy as much land as they like. Rewilding will be the next highland clearance and thereafter there will be nothing there but crap unprofitable ‘cover’.
It will all be sold as green this and green that, it matters not to those that heather moorland has been scientifically proven to hold more carbon than tree planting but that’s not the narrative either the Scottish Government or the Anti’s want people to hear.
Rewilding in Scotland is driving a rift between deer-stalkers and environmentalists
Pressure on deer populations is mounting not just from the rewilders but also from the Scottish government
inews.co.uk
As to driven grouse shooting, my guess is in Scotland with the greens propping up the SNP (both have a dislike of the industry for obvious reasons), the various anti groups accompanied with any persecution incidents alleged or otherwise will lead to moors being licensed within the next 2 or so years referencing the ‘Werrity Report’ as that’s how long it will take to sort the legislation. Let’s face it the report wasn’t slanted heavily enough for the antis or government to implement the recommendations immediately.
My personal view is that unless politics change dramatically in Scotland the writing is on the wall for the industry and the rest will slowly follow.
Sadly grouse moors and any shooting sports are the ‘go to’ stick to drum up support and beat down the opposition with the perception being that only Tories and rich folk shoot grouse or shoot anything in fact.
They also have a dislike for private firearms ownership and a would love to prohibit or significantly reduce same which their former justice secretary Kenny McNugget was vocal about on more than one occasion.
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geoffw
Well-Known Member
All that I understand so it's the fact that the land/altitude/soil/humans vs apex predators won't support that dream that gets me.It’s quite simple. The end goal, in Scotland, for the SNP (Scottish Labour are not even a threat up here anymore), is to make estates so unprofitable that owners through in the towel or they compulsorily purchase the ground under the guise of community buyouts and then plant trees and do away with field sports as they peddle it as a ‘toffs pastime’ and go on about absentee English lairds to get the knuckle draggers stirred up.
Apparently though, it appears with their land reform act it’s ok to allow certain nationalities to buy as much land as they like. Rewilding will be the next highland clearance and thereafter there will be nothing there but crap unprofitable ‘cover’.
It will all be sold as green this and green that, it matters not to those that heather moorland has been scientifically proven to hold more carbon than tree planting but that’s not the narrative either the Scottish Government or the Anti’s want people to hear.
Rewilding in Scotland is driving a rift between deer-stalkers and environmentalists
Pressure on deer populations is mounting not just from the rewilders but also from the Scottish government
As to driven grouse shooting, my guess is in Scotland with the greens propping up the SNP (both have a dislike of the industry for obvious reasons), the various anti groups accompanied with any persecution incidents alleged or otherwise will lead to moors being licensed within the next 2 or so years referencing the ‘Werrity Report’ as that’s how long it will take to sort the legislation. Let’s face it the report wasn’t slanted heavily enough for the antis or government to implement the recommendations immediately.
My personal view is that unless politics change dramatically in Scotland the writing is on the wall for the industry and the rest will slowly follow.
Sadly grouse moors and any shooting sports are the ‘go to’ stick to drum up support and beat down the opposition with the perception being that only Tories and rich folk shoot grouse or shoot anything in fact.
They also have a dislike for private firearms ownership and a would love to prohibit or significantly reduce same which their former justice secretary Kenny McNugget was vocal about on more than one occasion.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Watching the decline of Scotland today, the country I love more than any other on this planet, is like watching Zimbabwe a couple of decades ago. It really does break my heart.It’s quite simple. The end goal, in Scotland, for the SNP (Scottish Labour are not even a threat up here anymore), is to make estates so unprofitable that owners through in the towel or they compulsorily purchase the ground under the guise of community buyouts and then plant trees and do away with field sports as they peddle it as a ‘toffs pastime’ and go on about absentee English lairds to get the knuckle draggers stirred up.
Apparently though, it appears with their land reform act it’s ok to allow certain nationalities to buy as much land as they like. Rewilding will be the next highland clearance and thereafter there will be nothing there but crap unprofitable ‘cover’.
It will all be sold as green this and green that, it matters not to those that heather moorland has been scientifically proven to hold more carbon than tree planting but that’s not the narrative either the Scottish Government or the Anti’s want people to hear.
Rewilding in Scotland is driving a rift between deer-stalkers and environmentalists
Pressure on deer populations is mounting not just from the rewilders but also from the Scottish government
As to driven grouse shooting, my guess is in Scotland with the greens propping up the SNP (both have a dislike of the industry for obvious reasons), the various anti groups accompanied with any persecution incidents alleged or otherwise will lead to moors being licensed within the next 2 or so years referencing the ‘Werrity Report’ as that’s how long it will take to sort the legislation. Let’s face it the report wasn’t slanted heavily enough for the antis or government to implement the recommendations immediately.
My personal view is that unless politics change dramatically in Scotland the writing is on the wall for the industry and the rest will slowly follow.
Sadly grouse moors and any shooting sports are the ‘go to’ stick to drum up support and beat down the opposition with the perception being that only Tories and rich folk shoot grouse or shoot anything in fact.
They also have a dislike for private firearms ownership and a would love to prohibit or significantly reduce same which their former justice secretary Kenny McNugget was vocal about on more than one occasion.
You're citing a paper (not a piece of science) produced by a former Chairman of RSPB , the very same organisation that has publicly made outlandish, illogical and totally unsupportable accusations about this very incident? And you think that is persuasive?
The most useful thing to take from that paper is the final sentence:
"Only dialogue, mutual understanding and compromise are likely to lessen this conflict."
So which side has been doing nearly all the compromising thus far?
He didn't. A former chairman of RSPB did, citing sources consisting mainly of himself and various members of a small "bubble" dedicated to attacking shooting. This is why the paper included entirely unscientific rumour, allegations and mind-reading. It's also why it limited its scope ignoring persecution of raptors by any other offender, or in any other location.
Waz77
Well-Known Member
Thought as much, didn't really answer my question then regarding what he knew and what he was doing about it
It’s a solid bit of work which cites actual evidence accumulated by educated individuals And not just speculation from a couple of fortune tellers. Anyway you and Apthorpe just continue with your guess work Stick your head in the sand and reap your just rewards, which will enivitably be the demise of our country pastimes.Thought as much, didn't really answer my question then regarding what he knew and what he was doing about it
caorach
Well-Known Member
I've got to say that most "conspiracy" type theories fall down not on the small details on which they sit - dust and shadows in the faked moon landings for example - but on the bigger social requirements for the conspiracy. In the case of the moon landings about 250,000 people worked on that project and not one of them has come out to demonstrate the fakery. Same with the Diana, Princess of Wales, conspiracy - it requires that many thousands of French people who are well beyond the reach of the British establishment were willingly involved and have kept the secret.
This tracker in a lead box story falls down in the same way in the sense that you don't need to look at the detail of what is said to have happened, rather you need to look at the detail of how people behave. Would it be easier to find suitable lead, wrap the tracker up, take it to a nearby river, throw it in... Or would you simply hit the thing with a big stone you've just picked up, break it into a million small bits, and kick them into a nearby peat bank never to be seen again?
First of all acknowledging it and then spreading the word amongst my peers that it is unacceptable. What are you doing?So what do you know and what are you doing about it? Simple enough question?
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