guns taken

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Pete6.5 said:
If they have to take a person's firearms for a good reason. Why can't the police show some sense/compassion to a difficult situation and and allow 15mins for you or them to strip thermal or the scope. ( In any situation respect should be shown to somebody's hard earned property)
Click to expand...
Whilst repetition does not make the point...

If, however, the seizure is anticipated or indeed by "appointment" then it can be done without any drama.
 
Stalker1962 said:
Whilst repetition does not make the point...

If, however, the seizure is anticipated or indeed by "appointment" then it can be done without any drama.
Click to expand...
I agree but sometimes it's not possible. And I've heard rumours that sometimes guns have been returned in a poorer condition than they were taken. If I worked in a police officers personal house I would show respect to their belongings.
 
badmolassesaccident said:
Someone posted that the police can lawfully enter a firearm owners property against the wishes of the home owner and without a warrant. Is this the case?
Click to expand...
Yes.

In certain circumstances, the Police can enter any address without a warrant.


The police can enter without a warrant or permission in order to arrest someone or take them into custody when they have reasonable grounds to believe that:

  • they need to enter in order to prevent someone inside from being seriously injured or killed, or
  • there is evidence in your home that relates to a serious offence, and they need to find that evidence right away or it might be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home without a warrant or permission if they are in "hot pursuit" of someone whom they have the authority to arrest. For example, they would be in hot pursuit if they were chasing someone from the scene of a crime and they saw that person enter your home.

And the police can enter your home to look for evidence if:

  • they have reasonable grounds to believe there is evidence in your home, for example, drugs or weapons, and
  • they need to act immediately so that the evidence will not be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:

  • to give emergency aid to someone inside
  • to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists
  • to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public
  • to investigate a 911 telephone call
  • to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely
  • to protect people from injury if the police have reason to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house
  • to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect
Under child welfare law, the police can enter your home without a warrant to remove a child if they have reasonable grounds to believe any of the following:

  • the child is neglected or abused and is "in need of protection"
  • the child is a "runaway" under the age of 16, who was in the care of a children's aid society, and whose health or safety might be at risk during the time needed to get a warrant
  • the child is under 12 years old and has done something that would be an offence if someone 12 or older had done it
 
Stalker1962 said:
Yes.

In certain circumstances, the Police can enter any address without a warrant.


The police can enter without a warrant or permission in order to arrest someone or take them into custody when they have reasonable grounds to believe that:

  • they need to enter in order to prevent someone inside from being seriously injured or killed, or
  • there is evidence in your home that relates to a serious offence, and they need to find that evidence right away or it might be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home without a warrant or permission if they are in "hot pursuit" of someone whom they have the authority to arrest. For example, they would be in hot pursuit if they were chasing someone from the scene of a crime and they saw that person enter your home.

And the police can enter your home to look for evidence if:

  • they have reasonable grounds to believe there is evidence in your home, for example, drugs or weapons, and
  • they need to act immediately so that the evidence will not be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:

  • to give emergency aid to someone inside
  • to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists
  • to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public
  • to investigate a 911 telephone call
  • to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely
  • to protect people from injury if the police have reason to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house
  • to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect
Under child welfare law, the police can enter your home without a warrant to remove a child if they have reasonable grounds to believe any of the following:

  • the child is neglected or abused and is "in need of protection"
  • the child is a "runaway" under the age of 16, who was in the care of a children's aid society, and whose health or safety might be at risk during the time needed to get a warrant
  • the child is under 12 years old and has done something that would be an offence if someone 12 or older had done it
Click to expand...
Some of those grounds for entering without a warrant are rather alarming!! And some rather woolly.
I'm amazed by the last one. If a child e.g. throws a stone through someone's window, or commits what would be a "hate crime" (I.e. being rude and offensive) the police can force entry to a house and remove the child without a warrant??

"
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public"
This one.... Surely that can't be right?
 
Stalker1962 said:
Yes.

In certain circumstances, the Police can enter any address without a warrant.


The police can enter without a warrant or permission in order to arrest someone or take them into custody when they have reasonable grounds to believe that:

  • they need to enter in order to prevent someone inside from being seriously injured or killed, or
  • there is evidence in your home that relates to a serious offence, and they need to find that evidence right away or it might be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home without a warrant or permission if they are in "hot pursuit" of someone whom they have the authority to arrest. For example, they would be in hot pursuit if they were chasing someone from the scene of a crime and they saw that person enter your home.

And the police can enter your home to look for evidence if:

  • they have reasonable grounds to believe there is evidence in your home, for example, drugs or weapons, and
  • they need to act immediately so that the evidence will not be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:

  • to give emergency aid to someone inside
  • to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists
  • to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public
  • to investigate a 911 telephone call
  • to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely
  • to protect people from injury if the police have reason to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house
  • to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect
Under child welfare law, the police can enter your home without a warrant to remove a child if they have reasonable grounds to believe any of the following:

  • the child is neglected or abused and is "in need of protection"
  • the child is a "runaway" under the age of 16, who was in the care of a children's aid society, and whose health or safety might be at risk during the time needed to get a warrant
  • the child is under 12 years old and has done something that would be an offence if someone 12 or older had done it
Click to expand...
Is that the correct information for the UK, it lists a 911 call instead of 999
 
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Stalker1962 said:
Yes.

In certain circumstances, the Police can enter any address without a warrant.


The police can enter without a warrant or permission in order to arrest someone or take them into custody when they have reasonable grounds to believe that:

  • they need to enter in order to prevent someone inside from being seriously injured or killed, or
  • there is evidence in your home that relates to a serious offence, and they need to find that evidence right away or it might be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home without a warrant or permission if they are in "hot pursuit" of someone whom they have the authority to arrest. For example, they would be in hot pursuit if they were chasing someone from the scene of a crime and they saw that person enter your home.

And the police can enter your home to look for evidence if:

  • they have reasonable grounds to believe there is evidence in your home, for example, drugs or weapons, and
  • they need to act immediately so that the evidence will not be lost or destroyed.
The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:

  • to give emergency aid to someone inside
  • to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists
  • to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public
  • to investigate a 911 telephone call
  • to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely
  • to protect people from injury if the police have reason to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house
  • to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect
Under child welfare law, the police can enter your home without a warrant to remove a child if they have reasonable grounds to believe any of the following:

  • the child is neglected or abused and is "in need of protection"
  • the child is a "runaway" under the age of 16, who was in the care of a children's aid society, and whose health or safety might be at risk during the time needed to get a warrant
  • the child is under 12 years old and has done something that would be an offence if someone 12 or older had done
Click to expand...
I’m not sure if those circumstances listed are applicable to the UK?
It’s more extensive than what existed in Scotland but we were not operating under PACE.
In 30 years being operational, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times entry was made without consent or warrant.
 
Greenmist said:
Is that the correct information for the UK, it lists a 911 call instead of 999
Click to expand...
Absolutely right. Well spotted.

The offences in the UK are almost identical.

As mentioned by @bobthedug, whilst the 'powers' are there, to enter without a warrant in the UK, it is usually confined to 'hot pursuit" and to save life.

As @bobthedug says, he used it once in 30 years; I used it never in 30 years - it is a rare thing.

I think the OP's point was "Do we as FAC/SGC holders have less rights that those that do not hold FAC/SGCs?"

The answer is no.

I think the issue arrises from the standard Police letter that asks you to "facilitate' entry to conduct a security inspection without recourse to a warrant to enter and search.

My view.

If the Police turn up (unannounced) without a warrant and 'ask' for permission to enter and search, it will be politely declined.

If the Police turn up (announced) without a warrant and "ask" for permission to enter and search, it will be politely accepted.

If the Police turn up (unannounced) with a warrant - they are not asking anything, and I will be in no position to argue the toss one way or the other ...
 
Apthorpe said:
  • to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public"
This one.... Surely that can't be right?
Click to expand...
It is right.

In a nutshell.

A member of the public can arrest anyone, who they believe is or has committed an "arrestable" offence.

A sworn Police Officer, can arrest anyone, who they believe is, has or is about to, commit an 'arrestable' offence.

Crime prevention...
 
Stalker1962 said:
Absolutely right. Well spotted.

The offences in the UK are almost identical.

As mentioned by @bobthedug, whilst the 'powers' are there, to enter without a warrant in the UK, it is usually confined to 'hot pursuit" and to save life.

As @bobthedug says, he used it once in 30 years; I used it never in 30 years - it is a rare thing.

I think the OP's point was "Do we as FAC/SGC holders have less rights that those that do not hold FAC/SGCs?"

The answer is no.

I think the issue arrises from the standard Police letter that asks you to "facilitate' entry to conduct a security inspection without recourse to a warrant to enter and search.

My view.

If the Police turn up (unannounced) without a warrant and 'ask' for permission to enter and search, it will be politely declined.

If the Police turn up (announced) without a warrant and "ask" for permission to enter and search, it will be politely accepted.

If the Police turn up (unannounced) with a warrant - they are not asking anything, and I will be in no position to argue the toss one way or the other ...
Click to expand...
I also share your view, as, I would think most reasonable people would do.
I struggle to believe all these internet reports of police entering properties against the wishes of the occupant and removing guns.
 
bobthedug said:
Do you genuinely think that police decided the removal and seizure of someone's guns on the basis of Basc level of insurance cover?
Click to expand...
Call me cynical if you like, (nothing to do with this particular case, I know) but I think it's definitely the case that BASC dropped their legal cover because they could see on the horizon that they might have to actually start providing the service, once GPs started to get involved in the process.
BASC could see that GPs were going to start causing problems, so got "ahead of the curve" by dropping the cover before they had to start shelling out some potentially serious dosh as and when FACs and SGCs started to get revoked because a GP wouldn't engage with the process.
 
Just looked at that side-by-side insurance policy and still seems as though you could be left wanting...
 

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Stalker1962 said:
It is right.

In a nutshell.

A member of the public can arrest anyone, who they believe is or has committed an "arrestable" offence.

A sworn Police Officer, can arrest anyone, who they believe is, has or is about to, commit an 'arrestable' offence.

Crime prevention...
Click to expand...
The concept of an 'arrestable offence' has been obsolete, IIRC, since 2005.
 
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