Exactly, sounds stupid doesn’t it!nasty chest shots they should be banned !
Head shooting
- Thread starter Happy stalker
- Start date
Nickb
Well-Known Member
Except rats
A bad shot is a bad shot.
I appreciate that the head is the most mobile part of the deer and margin for error is increased.
The person pulling the trigger makes the decision and if they cock up then they need to be able to deal with the consequences.
I dont think there will ever be agreement so whatever choice we make will be based on our own morals, experience and judgement.
I head and neck shoot deer but not as a preference and under circumstances where I am happy to do so (deer is couched up, static, sensible range and good rest etc) but in most cases I opt for the easy choice which is a chest shot. The reason I use the term easy is that it allows the biggest margin for error and still gives you a dead deer. Whilst none of us plan to make a mistake they happen and we need to deal with that event quickly to avoid suffering.
I appreciate that the head is the most mobile part of the deer and margin for error is increased.
The person pulling the trigger makes the decision and if they cock up then they need to be able to deal with the consequences.
I dont think there will ever be agreement so whatever choice we make will be based on our own morals, experience and judgement.
I head and neck shoot deer but not as a preference and under circumstances where I am happy to do so (deer is couched up, static, sensible range and good rest etc) but in most cases I opt for the easy choice which is a chest shot. The reason I use the term easy is that it allows the biggest margin for error and still gives you a dead deer. Whilst none of us plan to make a mistake they happen and we need to deal with that event quickly to avoid suffering.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
And slugs and squirrels and wasps and cockroaches .Except rats
No one should be taking “ head shots “.
The head is big and has lots of non lethal area, we should be aiming for the cranium.
There’s a bit of leeway with a soft bullet in a .270 class cartridge
BenBhoy
Well-Known Member
Still a bloody weird positioning
Im confused by the 'deer not vermin' argument.
Whether one considers them vermin or not is a matter of context IMHO. One deer is cute and cuddly, potentially food.
A herd of two hundred deer in the same environment is a herd of vermin.
As others have said if you shoot rabbits, crows etc, do we owe them any less respect than to despatch them humanely and quickly, and yet for small 'game' aka vermin, the head shot is the target of choice. Being able to shoot a group on a target at 50m the size of a 5p is often the objective of the airgunner, to ensure that head shots can be taken with confidence on rats, rabbits etc.
JMHO
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Nickb
Well-Known Member
Slugs, wasps and cockroaches arent mammals the last time I checked.
Did I just hear the sound of a nail being hit on the you-know-where?
Ronin
Distinguished Member
Listened to it this morning whilst driving so unable to watch the recorded videos that were referred to
Having watchers other content from this person (some of which referred to in previous posts) I really did have to force myself to listen to it
However I have to say I am glad I did - there was some sense dispelled
I personally do not like head shooting with the exception of if the animal is head down feeding and facing towards me
I would only neck shoot from behind or front as well
Both the above points are in my mind fundamental and common sense
@Selous makes the valid point of oesophageal and trachea positioning when neck shooting from the side which changes with position of the animals head leading to higher propensity of wounding
Ultimately it’s your choice but heart lung - is my preferred shot if the animal is not settled
Having watchers other content from this person (some of which referred to in previous posts) I really did have to force myself to listen to it
However I have to say I am glad I did - there was some sense dispelled
I personally do not like head shooting with the exception of if the animal is head down feeding and facing towards me
I would only neck shoot from behind or front as well
Both the above points are in my mind fundamental and common sense
@Selous makes the valid point of oesophageal and trachea positioning when neck shooting from the side which changes with position of the animals head leading to higher propensity of wounding
Ultimately it’s your choice but heart lung - is my preferred shot if the animal is not settled
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
You’re skirting the point
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Correct, but I don’t see why they should be treated differently. They feel pain.
That would be a very risky shot to take, in my opinion.
An animal that's feeding is constantly moving its head, in an unpredictable way.
Conversely, with it's head up and looking straight at you, a deer will generally remain absolutely motionless for some considerable time, and when it does move its head it's usually in a fairly predictable way.
I have videoed a fallow doe from my highseat for over 2 minutes without any movement at all. If you were to turn the sound off you wouldn't know that it was a video rather than a still photo. 2 minutes should be enough time to get a safe shot off!
The best is to have the animal standing broadside, but head facing towards you.
(Or just shine a torch in their eyes. They stand still then
)no im making the point , traps like that arent practical and wouldnt work , the fact remains that to many deer are pests
Ronin
Distinguished Member
That would be a very risky shot to take, in my opinion.
An animal that's feeding is constantly moving its head, in an unpredictable way.
Conversely, with it's head up and looking straight at you, a deer will generally remain absolutely motionless for some considerable time, and when it does move its head it's usually in a fairly predictable way.
I have videoed a fallow doe from my highseat for over 2 minutes without any movement at all. If you were to turn the sound off you wouldn't know that it was a video rather than a still photo. 2 minutes should be enough time to get a safe shot off!
The best is to have the animal standing broadside, but head facing towards you.
(Or just shine a torch in their eyes. They stand still then
Pick the timing - watch the animal first , be in sensible range
I do not do it often
I don’t really understand why head shooting causes such intense disagreement.
The basic principles of all shots apply: you make a decision based on context, conditions, an awareness of your own capabilities and a balance of risk and ethics that is entirely specific and personal.
Every single person pulling the trigger on every shot faces SOME risk of it going wrong. If you truly wanted absolute certainty that you were never going to wound, the only rational choice would be never to shoot. As soon as you choose to shoot, you are accepting that at some point, you will wound. Each person then decides what risk of wounding they’re comfortable with, and what to do to minimise that risk.
Holier than thou diktats that no one should ever head shoot are as much an attention seeking extremist position as willy waving long range head shooters whooping away on Utube.
A calm head shot off a bipod at a stationary animal at 75 metres is almost certainly a more ethical shot than a hurried chest shot off sticks in a 20 mile wind at a nervous animal at 250 metres.
The basic principles of all shots apply: you make a decision based on context, conditions, an awareness of your own capabilities and a balance of risk and ethics that is entirely specific and personal.
Every single person pulling the trigger on every shot faces SOME risk of it going wrong. If you truly wanted absolute certainty that you were never going to wound, the only rational choice would be never to shoot. As soon as you choose to shoot, you are accepting that at some point, you will wound. Each person then decides what risk of wounding they’re comfortable with, and what to do to minimise that risk.
Holier than thou diktats that no one should ever head shoot are as much an attention seeking extremist position as willy waving long range head shooters whooping away on Utube.
A calm head shot off a bipod at a stationary animal at 75 metres is almost certainly a more ethical shot than a hurried chest shot off sticks in a 20 mile wind at a nervous animal at 250 metres.
Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
Some talk around stalker’s capabilities and ethics but little ref dealers ethics and putting pressure on stalkers abilities 
They're not putting pressure. They're just paying for what comes through the door. A carcass that's worth more to them they'll obviously pay more for. Wouldn't any business do the same?Some talk around stalker’s capabilities and ethics but little ref dealers ethics and putting pressure on stalkers abilities
The only person who decides whether or not a shot is "ethical" is the person who pulls the trigger. An "unethical" shot is one that is beyond the capability of the shooter, but he takes it anyway. The decision was entirely his.
And besides, why should stalkers who have put in the time to hone their skills to the high level required to produce top grade undamaged carcass be subsidising those who haven't? Carcasses should all be paid for on quality. There's no other fair way.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
I do head shoot some deer - when within the range I am comfortable hitting a target that size and when the condition are ideal, ie no wind.
If not then I will go for a low neck /hilar and if over 150m then it’s h+l every time.
90%+ of what I shoot are cwd and muntjac so h+l shots have to be forward, often hitting the front leg on one side or other (or both) hence I use the low neck shot mostly.
Not had any runners (other than a few metres before dropping) but the risk is there and I am aware of it and do all I can to mitigate.
All being well that will continue
If not then I will go for a low neck /hilar and if over 150m then it’s h+l every time.
90%+ of what I shoot are cwd and muntjac so h+l shots have to be forward, often hitting the front leg on one side or other (or both) hence I use the low neck shot mostly.
Not had any runners (other than a few metres before dropping) but the risk is there and I am aware of it and do all I can to mitigate.
All being well that will continue
I don't like it from the perspective of a no doubt overly-sensitive and 'soft' Lowland hunter. As in the aesthetic is clearly all wrong when you get to the poor beast!
In all seriousness, why anyone would wish to put up graphic imagery of exploding deer heads on YouTube is beyond me.
K
In all seriousness, why anyone would wish to put up graphic imagery of exploding deer heads on YouTube is beyond me.
K
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