HMR, WMR or WSM - some real world advice please

[JackD032]

I’ve currently got a CZ 455 in 22 which is perfect for rabbits out to 70m and a Tikka T1X in 223 for foxing. What I’m after is a rifle which will get me out to 150m for longer range rabbits and crows and I’ve narrowed it down to the above. I considered the Hornets but my rfd said the ammunition is almost as expensive as the 223 (£30 for 20) and ammunition cost is a factor. Must also be capable of occasional fox at shorter ranges (sub 100m).

I know everything has its pros and cons and so far I’ve been put off the HMR due to many reports of poor ammunition and hit and miss accuracy. However there are still loads of people who swear by them.

The WSM looks good however it’s only available in the Savage rifle as far as I know and I’m not convinced I’d get on with the bolt cocking mechanism from the reviews I’ve seen.

I haven’t seen much to put me off the WMR other than it running out of steam and dropping sharply around 120m.

Any advice on these calibres / choice of rifles would be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Tulloch]

Hi Mate ,

First and foremost the .22lr is more than capable to shoot rabbits out to 150yrds and I do that regularly, however, I get where you are coming from, I also have a CZ455 that I do most of my work with .

Now here is my over all advice. Neither one replaces the .22lr although they do have their uses. The .17hmy is very light fast and effective round IF THERES NO WIND! wind is a major issue with this calibre and guys that use it genuinely still end up shooting rabbits at 50 to 100yrds.

The WMR is a very good round but not hugely accurate and often getting ammo that is consistent is hard over here and expensive .

WSM is very restrictive and ammo is in short supply .

All three , .17Hmr, >22WMR and .22WSM have two main flaws , 1. noise by god you can here the difference when shooting at night and .2. cost, average price for a box of 50 is around £20 or between £15 to £25 depending on ammo brand and weight.

Every time I put the .17HMR barrel on the CZ455 I end up going straight back to the .22lr barrel after 5 or six outings.

I have put a few videos up recently regarding the CZ455 on my youtube channel Fieldsports Scotland have a look you might find it useful .

If your going to go for either of the 3 I would go for the .17 over the other two and just buy a barrel kit then if your finding the urge to go back to the .22lr then you have that option.

Each to their own though

 

[JMikeyH]

+1 to Tulloch's take on the hmr. It's great when there's no wind, but even a little bit can hamper it's effectiveness a lot. As for ammunition, I've never had a problem with poor quality other than a few duds of Winchester ballistic tips, and there were dirt cheap and not particularly accurate anyway. Hornady 17gr v max is superb out of my cz455, always accurate and never had any issue with it.

 

[Andy-shooter]

Here is an alternative for you...

Spend the money you would have spent on a new rifle on some reloading gear and load low cost bullets in the 223. You should be able to get down to 20-30p per round. If you want less noise/performance than a standard 223 it would be quite easy to download.

 

[JackD032]

Hi Mate ,

First and foremost the .22lr is more than capable to shoot rabbits out to 150yrds and I do that regularly, however, I get where you are coming from, I also have a CZ455 that I do most of my work with .

Now here is my over all advice. Neither one replaces the .22lr although they do have their uses. The .17hmy is very light fast and effective round IF THERES NO WIND! wind is a major issue with this calibre and guys that use it genuinely still end up shooting rabbits at 50 to 100yrds.

The WMR is a very good round but not hugely accurate and often getting ammo that is consistent is hard over here and expensive .

WSM is very restrictive and ammo is in short supply .

All three , .17Hmr, >22WMR and .22WSM have two main flaws , 1. noise by god you can here the difference when shooting at night and .2. cost, average price for a box of 50 is around £20 or between £15 to £25 depending on ammo brand and weight.

Every time I put the .17HMR barrel on the CZ455 I end up going straight back to the .22lr barrel after 5 or six outings.

I have put a few videos up recently regarding the CZ455 on my youtube channel Fieldsports Scotland have a look you might find it useful .

If your going to go for either of the 3 I would go for the .17 over the other two and just buy a barrel kit then if your finding the urge to go back to the .22lr then you have that option.

Each to their own though

Hi Tulloch,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, I enjoy shooting the 22 but struggle with ammunition consistency and accuracy over 70m. I tried Winchester’s and Eley’s but they were all over the place. I settled on CCI subs as they are excellent out to 70m however I can’t get a hunting group past that which I would be happy with.
What ammunition do you use and what’s the drop at 150m? I’ll check out those videos thanks.

 

[User00035]

I assume you don't reload. If you do then .17 Hornet is back on the table. Otherwise I'd be sticking with my HMR. Against the WSM and WMR it's a clear winner of the rimfires in my book for +100 yard rabbits unless your ground is consistently windy. I've never had any ammo issues with mine using Winchesters. Most of my HMR shots are typically between 100 and 130 yards. Maximum is around 150 give or take. All will be comfortable and dependable head shots. That's good enough for what I need.
If your long range rabbits are a small proportion of your overall takes, use the .223 and no need to down-load. I used to use a .222 for mine. They were mainly mopping up shots in places where closer shots were very difficult for practical or safety reasons and I was happy to sacrifice a few unusable carcasses to get a tricky corner cleaned up.

I don't think the .22 lr is a straight replacement for the HMR or vice versa. The two compliment one another. You can use a .22 for 100+ yard shots but its a lot easier to use an HMR and unless you're hoping to happen on a fox, there's not much point using an HMR with NV against rabbits because with the cover of total darkness you don't need the distance.

In my cabinet, the .22 and the HMR always come as a pair.

 

[Tulloch]

Hi Tulloch,

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, I enjoy shooting the 22 but struggle with ammunition consistency and accuracy over 70m. I tried Winchester’s and Eley’s but they were all over the place. I settled on CCI subs as they are excellent out to 70m however I can’t get a hunting group past that which I would be happy with.
What ammunition do you use and what’s the drop at 150m? I’ll check out those videos thanks.

Hi Jack , are you using hold overs or are you dialing ? and what scope are you using?

I know it may seem strange us talking about rimfires in this way but the principles are the same with any centrefire. the other night in the rain I was dropping baby bunnies at 120yrds with the CCI subs that I use.

its all about practice and it is far far cheaper to practice with .22lr than any of the magnum rounds.

Dont underestimate the .22lr...

 

[JackD032]

Here is an alternative for you...

Spend the money you would have spent on a new rifle on some reloading gear and load low cost bullets in the 223. You should be able to get down to 20-30p per round. If you want less noise/performance than a standard 223 it would be quite easy to download.

I think that may be an option in the future but I don’t get time at the moment. Also it really seems like the dark arts to me!

 

[Tulloch]

If you have your heart set on one of the magnum rounds then it would have to be the .17hmr over the other two as I said ,

The .17 is far more accurate than the WSM and WMR and ammo is far easier to get , When I was talking about accuracy I was not meaning that the .17 is not accurate and I use 20gr over the 17gr however the WSM and the WMR do have accuracy and ammo issues as there is not an abundance of variation in the ammo we can get over here so if your rifle is fussy then your screwed . Same principles as a CF rifle each and every rifle is different and some can be fussier than others.

 

[DVS1]

I have HMR and 223 and like you the thought of using 223 on bunnies regularly hits the wallet...I am slowwwwly getting into reloading so should be cheaper but for now it would be remortgage time Haha

I use the HMR primarily for bunnies and like you if a fox comes in sub 100 depending on the factors and I limit myself to headshot only on fox with HMR. Noise yes is a factor but you can't tame supersonic whether HMR or 50cal, that side of things would be dictated by your surroundings...are you going to upset people and jeopardise your permission??

I use the 20gr CCI Gamepoint which has a bit more stopping power for any fox that may present itself and it happens to be the most accurate in my barrel, Hornady have recently released their own 20gr variant and I'm currently using them (I'll bet they come from the same factory just with a H stamp not a C stamp!)

Wind does affect things so a good breeze is going to make you have to adjust POA, that's what range days are for I recently had a blinking session at 200m with the HMR just for jollies testing the Pard007 and was happy with the results...



Would I take shots out to this range? Nah, the ammo isnt consistent enough but I'll happily go for a 150m bunny in the right conditions...but the majority of my bunnies are around 75m on average.

Much will depend on your land and what ranges you can get within, your normal million miles away so if you ever want to give the HMR a trial give me a PM and I'll pop on over.

 

[Tulloch]

I am going to be totally honest though,, when it comes to rimfires they all have their own little quirks and you will have to learn to be able to use each round . I live in the Highlands so wind is always an issue it might not be for you

 

[JackD032]

Some really sound advice here thank you. Plenty to think about and I’m not going to rush out and just spend cash. I’ve got two good rifles, just looking to bridge the gap, if indeed there is a gap.

 

[Tulloch]

.22lr plinking at 294yrds, I do this regularly ,

 

[Tulloch]

yesterday just messing with hold overs at 110yrds

 

[JackD032]

Hi Jack , are you using hold overs or are you dialing ? and what scope are you using?

I know it may seem strange us talking about rimfires in this way but the principles are the same with any centrefire. the other night in the rain I was dropping baby bunnies at 120yrds with the CCI subs that I use.

its all about practice and it is far far cheaper to practice with .22lr than any of the magnum rounds.

Dont underestimate the .22lr...

I’ve got a Hawke Sidewinder on the 22 with the SR Pro ret and I’m holding over with a 50m zero. When I tried grouping out to 100 it was on a bipod with a rear bag so a good stable platform but the groups weren’t pretty. Maybe extend the zero to 70 or 80.

 

[Tulloch]

I’ve got a Hawke Sidewinder on the 22 with the SR Pro ret and I’m holding over with a 50m zero. When I tried grouping out to 100 it was on a bipod with a rear bag so a good stable platform but the groups weren’t pretty. Maybe extend the zero to 70 or 80.

No do not extend the zero , if you do that you will hugely effect your closer range shots which will severely effect the effectiveness of the .22lr , increasing the zero might mean you need to hold dramatically at 15 to 25yrds which the .22lr is a lot of fun when knocking over busy warrens .

Are you able to dial with your scope? I think you can on the sidewinder but depends what model you have.

Get used to dialing, yes you will need some data but I can help with that easy . Hold overs take a lot of practice when in the field without a bag etc, and to be fair I shoot around 50 to 100 rabbits a night when I am out and some nights I am hitting everything and others am just not.

Dialing is a little different at night if you know your ranges then thats easier.

Just remember you will still have to learn hold overs even with the magnums and in some cases holding under.

 

[Rusty Gate]

I’ve currently got a CZ 455 in 22 which is perfect for rabbits out to 70m and a Tikka T1X in 223 for foxing. What I’m after is a rifle which will get me out to 150m for longer range rabbits and crows and I’ve narrowed it down to the above. I considered the Hornets but my rfd said the ammunition is almost as expensive as the 223 (£30 for 20) and ammunition cost is a factor. Must also be capable of occasional fox at shorter ranges (sub 100m).

I know everything has its pros and cons and so far I’ve been put off the HMR due to many reports of poor ammunition and hit and miss accuracy. However there are still loads of people who swear by them.

The WSM looks good however it’s only available in the Savage rifle as far as I know and I’m not convinced I’d get on with the bolt cocking mechanism from the reviews I’ve seen.

I haven’t seen much to put me off the WMR other than it running out of steam and dropping sharply around 120m.

Any advice on these calibres / choice of rifles would be much appreciated.

Cheers

Just get the lower velocity 22, quiet & less meat damage. If your not worried about that then use the 223 as the hmr still smashes them anyway, I always hit the body as we’re on the windy west coast & never risked a poor head shot. If I was close enough for a clean shot it smashed them up. 223 & treat yourself to a nice scope.

 

[Zetter]

A lot of interesting reading on the above. One thing that I always find (and I use my .17HMR/ .17 Hornet a lot for the rabbits) is if you use your rabbits for eating as I do a head shot is essential otherwise the bunny is usually fit only for ferret food. Even then with the hornet its pretty messy.
Where I find the .22Lr can be more forgiving if you hit the bunny in the chest or the shoulder as most of the meat is still very salvageable. For this reason I am really tempted next year to get another .22lr as I regret letting mine go.

 

[tackb]

of your suggested calibres I would go 22wmr , I have one and used to agree with Tulloch but the new 30-33g ammo was a sea change in performance for the calibre in accuracy and performance !

 

[JackD032]

No do not extend the zero , if you do that you will hugely effect your closer range shots which will severely effect the effectiveness of the .22lr , increasing the zero might mean you need to hold dramatically at 15 to 25yrds which the .22lr is a lot of fun when knocking over busy warrens .

Are you able to dial with your scope? I think you can on the sidewinder but depends what model you have.

Get used to dialing, yes you will need some data but I can help with that easy . Hold overs take a lot of practice when in the field without a bag etc, and to be fair I shoot around 50 to 100 rabbits a night when I am out and some nights I am hitting everything and others am just not.

Dialing is a little different at night if you know your ranges then thats easier.

Just remember you will still have to learn hold overs even with the magnums and in some cases holding under.

Great shooting with a 22! I think a steel plate and a few hundred rounds of practise would be a good starting point for me. It’s a new Sidewinder with tactical turrets so it will dial and I could get Strelok on my phone. Most of my rabbit shooting is late afternoon but I do get out some nights with nv. I find judging distance with nv nigh on impossible so I’ll generally range find whilst it’s still light to a point at 70m and know I can hit out to there.