Can only lead a horse to water...
Hornady 10th Edition Reloading Manual
- Thread starter User00040
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Can only lead a horse to water...
still no 25-45 data.Also interesting that they are still on the ‘neck sizing is optimal for accuracy’ bus…
Write them?
Neck sizing still useful for necking down a parent case though...
Neck sizing has its uses for sure.
As for the sharps data, sierra have data for it and I have my loads sorted for now. 90 gr hpbt for target and 80 gr TTSX for deer, but more data for reference is always nice.
Also interesting that they are still on the ‘neck sizing is optimal for accuracy’ bus…
I think they've been a little lazy with data for the newer bullets in the 11th edition, they've simply grouped them in with existing bullets of similar weight
.
2Ll’s
Well-Known Member
Thank you
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Thanks - there is a really good chapter on what happens as the primer is struck to all the pressures and how changes in seating depths etc can have a dramatic effect.
And also why with just neck sized cases you will often have a slightly stiff bolt closure - your case is now the same length as your rifle chamber when there is 60,000 PSI of pressure forcing the bolt against the lugs.
And also why with just neck sized cases you will often have a slightly stiff bolt closure - your case is now the same length as your rifle chamber when there is 60,000 PSI of pressure forcing the bolt against the lugs.
Yes and no, if your case dimensions matched or even exceeded the dimensions of the chamber, you would have to cam the bolt down so hard that the lugs would soon be galling and brass would also be getting pushed against the chamber walls.
You would need to fire and neck size a case at least once or twice at 'full fat' loads to observe this. Sometimes more!
Springback is a crucial element in brass cases, esentially they swell to fit the chamber as the bullet leaves the case, creating a good gas seal (hence underloaded cases having sooty necks). If the brass has been constructed properly and the chamber is in spec, the brass contracts/springs back somewhat once pressures drop (bullet leaving muzzle) to allow for extraction of the case.
Listening to Eric Cortina, a lot of the F-Class guys 'back in the day' believed that neck sizing was best.
However, it was soon realised that you lose a lot of realibility with such tight tolerances, a small bit of sand or grit, worse still, wet ammo, could make a rifle lock up.
If you have fired a rifle with excess headspace (which uses the shoulder to index) you would note that the bolt lift was fine, but it was a b*stard to extract (pull bolt back) on most cases. Also there will be an audible click when the primary extraction cam engages, as it is literally breaking the brass free from the chamber.
Another thing to note, is that cases will grow by a large amount if this is the case. Bought a rifle that passed proof with this problem... so much for the proof house...
So yes, by neck sizing only your case will eventually get big enough to the point where you would have to jam it into the chamber to fit. Not good!
An example of this happening can be seen on early Pro Roo Shooter's rifles in Australia. Most have badly worn bolt lugs if the shooter reloaded. Why?
Well in Aus, there was a prohibition on importing 'sporting' rifles for a while, so surplus Lee Enfields were sporterised to suit. This included making wildcats such as the 22/.303, 25/.303 and 270/.303 which used the .303 Brit as the parent case.
Simplex was the biggest (only?) domestic maker of reloading dies at the time. However, their super simplex line used a smaller thread pitch (5/8") which was insufficient to full length size cases, unlike the American standard 7/8"-14.
So what did all this mean? Once the fancy sporting rifles and cartridges became available (.222 most notably) the pro shooters who reloaded and whose previously purchased presses could only take Simplex neck dies, only neck sized.
(It should be noted that Simplex offered 'vise dies' to rectify the issue, but these are slow because as the name implies, needs a vise. They also size the case back to minimum factory dimensions.)
Hence you have quite a few old Sako and BSA rifles kicking around with galled lugs in AUS.
Something to be mindful of.
Thanks very much for posting!
Just had a quick look at 7x64, and was surprised at how low the velocities seemed. When I looked at 7x65R, I was surprised to see that they were in general higher than for 7x64 - despite the 7x65R running at lower pressures. Initially I wondered whether this was just down to the 22" 7x64 vs 24" 7x65R - but on the whole it looks as though the charge-weights for the 7x65R are higher too....
Does anyone else find this odd, or am I missing an obvious explanation?
Just had a quick look at 7x64, and was surprised at how low the velocities seemed. When I looked at 7x65R, I was surprised to see that they were in general higher than for 7x64 - despite the 7x65R running at lower pressures. Initially I wondered whether this was just down to the 22" 7x64 vs 24" 7x65R - but on the whole it looks as though the charge-weights for the 7x65R are higher too....
Does anyone else find this odd, or am I missing an obvious explanation?
They probably looked at which actions were commonly found in that chambering.
EG. US load data is often conservative for the 6.5x55 (look SAMMI vs CIP) due to the Krag actions.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
In the 9th edition they only listed data for the 7x65R and this is generally 10% down on the 7x64 as it is used in weaker break action single shots, doubles and combinations. My go to load for a long time was 51.5gn of IMR4831 under a 139 gn 4320 Hornady Softpoint. It was a very mild shooting load. Their loads fir the 7x57 are also a bit anaemic.
Bear in mind that that 7x57 is 130 years old, the 7x64 and 65R dste from about 1918, whilst the 270 Win is 1920s. Any of these can be chambered in weak old actions and the US reload manuals are often pretty conservative. And 7x64 is not really understood in the US.
Now that I am to stick to Viht powders I use their load data as a starting point. But the Hornady manual is, I think, a very good read.
Having actually read the blurb (not to self - read the blurb first next time) is says for 7x65R:
Caution must be used when using the data presented here, as this data was
obtained with a strong bolt action modern rifle. Normally, combination guns
are not capable of handling loads equivalent to that of the bolt action. For this
reason, loads should be reduced 10 to 15% when loading for combination guns.
Which seems utterly bizarre. Who gets a 7x65R bolt-action rifle built in order to get data for a manual, knowing (as they do) that in the real world it will be fired almost exclusively in break-action firearms?
Anyhow, there we have it...
Caution must be used when using the data presented here, as this data was
obtained with a strong bolt action modern rifle. Normally, combination guns
are not capable of handling loads equivalent to that of the bolt action. For this
reason, loads should be reduced 10 to 15% when loading for combination guns.
Which seems utterly bizarre. Who gets a 7x65R bolt-action rifle built in order to get data for a manual, knowing (as they do) that in the real world it will be fired almost exclusively in break-action firearms?
Anyhow, there we have it...
I agree - a very useful resource.
Entirely free or pay for data?
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
The app itself is free and allows free access to the cartridge guide for a description and dims etc but you have to subscribe or pay per load data download ($0.89 per download). I find it's handy just for having the SAAMI spec sheets to check dimensions as I use GRT for all my reloading now. However the reloading guide (manual) is entirely free and can be downloaded by section (all bar the reloading data itself).
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Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Another link which may be of some use chaps.
pjkaz
Well-Known Member
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