House doors to be locked continuously even when you're at home?

[Lateral]

I can only say, that if people live in an area, where they are totally happy to leave their doors, and accessible windows open, they are very lucky. Regardless of firearms ownership, or not !!!

We all accept that if someone is determined to get in, they will, whether we are there, or not, but it's purely idiotic to say that you won't, or don't lock the windows, and doors for that reason

 

[stubear]

Also - never mind your FAC/SGC conditions; If you leave your door open and someone walks in and nicks the priceless Matisse you have on the wall (dont we all? ) you'll have a job explaining that to the insurance company when you submit your claim!

You've got to take "reasonable" precautions to prevent theft of your valuables even on your bog standard household contents insurance.

I know people who have burglar alarms and their insurance provider has said that if the house gets burgled and they forgot to set the alarm then the insurance would be invalid, and the same for locking windows.

 

[Shootist]

For those who are content that their dog/s will warn / deter / attack any intruder I can remark that in 22 years of policing I went to quite a few reports of burglaries where much had been stolen while the dog was in the house. During such reports the dog would be sitting shamefacedly in it's bed while the owner would repeat how he couldn't understand why the dog didn't bother the intruder while the place was being looted as it would usually try to have a go at anyone who first came in. Of course, some might say "Not with my dog they wouldn't" which the owners I describe would have been saying perhaps the day before the burglary.

 

[Shootist]

I take it you've never been in a court of law where what is reasonable and what is not reasonable when it comes to firearm law have been made clear. Unless you live in an area where it is expected that a "druggy/ thief" will just walk in, it is not reasonable to expect it to happen so, no, you are not causing a risk to the public and face the risk of a revocation.

I hesitate to argue anything on points of law so I'll just say that I could if I wished. I think it is safe to ask, though, who wants to be a test case?

 

[User00025]

Living in my main residence in a very low crime area (apart from Pikeys) I still have CCTV and lock my doors when in. Having lived in many isolated areas and being threatened by low lifes on many occasions whilst keepering it has become a habit. However It first started after a mis spent period of life when working "Overseas",(well one sea anyway) when I saw my name on a list. Since that time any knock on the door required a very careful observance of who was there before answering. In my dotage it is now not so important as times have changed but old habits die hard and before answering a knock in the dark certain precautions are still taken by both my wife and myself.

 

[bewsher500]

Also - never mind your FAC/SGC conditions; If you leave your door open and someone walks in and nicks the priceless Matisse you have on the wall (dont we all? ) you'll have a job explaining that to the insurance company when you submit your claim!

You've got to take "reasonable" precautions to prevent theft of your valuables even on your bog standard household contents insurance.

I know people who have burglar alarms and their insurance provider has said that if the house gets burgled and they forgot to set the alarm then the insurance would be invalid, and the same for locking windows.

only when they are out of the house though

if you are in then you are the "reasonable precaution"!

Somebody walks into my house without consent they are immediately trespassing (its the E in B&E)
method of entry is irrelevant



do you put a trigger lock on your rifle when cleaning it in case someone walks in?
do you lock your car doors when driving?
is the dog allowed off the lead outside?

we'll be handcuffing ourselves to our possessions when outside next.

 

[CharlieT]

If such precautions were a countrywide blanket policy I would be more than a little miffed to think that our country had become so lawless that one could not sit in one's own home with the windows or doors open on a summers day without falling foul of the law.

I suppose it comes down to common sense, if I lived in Harlesden High Street I would probably lock my doors. Fortunately, living where I do, I rarely lock my doors or close the windows, even when I go to bed.

 

[FrenchieBoy]

For those who are content that their dog/s will warn / deter / attack any intruder I can remark that in 22 years of policing I went to quite a few reports of burglaries where much had been stolen while the dog was in the house. During such reports the dog would be sitting shamefacedly in it's bed while the owner would repeat how he couldn't understand why the dog didn't bother the intruder while the place was being looted as it would usually try to have a go at anyone who first came in. Of course, some might say "Not with my dog they wouldn't" which the owners I describe would have been saying perhaps the day before the burglary.

A very interesting post. It ties in with a TV program that I saw a month or two ago about dog behaviour. They set up cameras in various houses where the owner had a dog as a pet which they thought would deter or guard against intruders. They then sent an "intruder" in and in just about all cases the dog failed to deter or even bark at the "intruder" - In fact several of the dogs filmed actually went and cowered in their bed!
As for my dog - If we had an intruder they would be in severe danger of some very serious injuries - Our dog would almost certainly beat them to death with her tail!

Edit: Just out of interest does anyone know what the legal situation would be if someone entered your home without invitation and your dog attacked and seriously injured them?

 

[stubear]

only when they are out of the house though

if you are in then you are the "reasonable precaution"!

Somebody walks into my house without consent they are immediately trespassing (its the E in B&E)
method of entry is irrelevant



do you put a trigger lock on your rifle when cleaning it in case someone walks in?
do you lock your car doors when driving?
is the dog allowed off the lead outside?

we'll be handcuffing ourselves to our possessions when outside next.

Yes agree complete Ed - I think if you're in the house then surely thats you covered!

I suspect this is more just abdication of responsibility than anything else; "Well you didnt have your doors and windows locked, its your fault..."

Like you say, before you know it we'll be cuffed to what we own and living in windowless boxes behind inch thick steel doors.

 

[mrhim]

Yes, you are missing something - Living in London might have something to do with it though!

Simon, More firearms are stole outside of London than in London!!

 

[mrhim]

Also - never mind your FAC/SGC conditions; If you leave your door open and someone walks in and nicks the priceless Matisse you have on the wall (dont we all? ) you'll have a job explaining that to the insurance company when you submit your claim!

You've got to take "reasonable" precautions to prevent theft of your valuables even on your bog standard household contents insurance.

I know people who have burglar alarms and their insurance provider has said that if the house gets burgled and they forgot to set the alarm then the insurance would be invalid, and the same for locking windows.

Stu, you're correct. So many on here think that having an FAC is a right and they will carry on acting as they wish to regardless. Those that do will not have an FAC for very long. I spoke with probably one of the top firearms barristers recently. He told me this for free. 'There aren't many Judges that will go against the decision of the Police should they revoke an FAC on the grounds the said holder poses a risk or is un-safe in possessing said FAC'

People forget we do not have a Second Amendment in the UK and have no inherent right to possess firearms. Its by the good grace of the Chief Police Officer.

 

[mrhim]

Like Ian and other responsible firearm owners, that's why we keep them in locked gun safes so druggies and other morons cant get at them.
Maybe the bobbies want us to follow the druggies 'safe houses' with steel grills over the doors and windows, ffs this is getting RIDICULOUS...

Issue is John, that once the person is in your home, they may force you to open your cabinet against your will. The Police are advocating a multi layer approach to security of your firearms and not the cabinet being the first and last line of defence. Seems reasonable considering the responsibility you're intrusted with?

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

We could bury all the ammo in the garden,then at least they wont use that because everyone knows they dont have time for gardening,ps dont forget to clean and dry the spade on a radiator before locking said spade in your gun cabinet,

 

[McKenzie]

We could bury all the ammo in the garden,then at least they wont use that because everyone knows they dont have time for gardening,ps dont forget to clean and dry the spade on a radiator before locking said spade in your gun cabinet,

http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/survivorammocan.php

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

Perfik!

 

[243ack]

Stu, you're correct. So many on here think that having an FAC is a right and they will carry on acting as they wish to regardless. Those that do will not have an FAC for very long. I spoke with probably one of the top firearms barristers recently. He told me this for free. 'There aren't many Judges that will go against the decision of the Police should they revoke an FAC on the grounds the said holder poses a risk or is un-safe in possessing said FAC'

People forget we do not have a Second Amendment in the UK and have no inherent right to possess firearms. Its by the good grace of the Chief Police Officer.

I disagree most strongly, Sir. It is our right to possess firearms, unless the authorities can show good reason why we should not.
Please read the relevant sections of the 1968 Firearms (and amendments) Act if in doubt.

 

[rem284]

I know most people are mentioning the fac security and rightly so but surely the protection of loved ones and self is more important. So I cant really understand why some seem to be rebellious and say they are not going to lock their doors. I live in the back of beyond and never thought for one minute there would be someone with mental health issues wanting to do harm to me. I was lucky and no harm was done and it was a wake up call to tighten up on security. I was concerned at the time for my safety and the fact that he had an issue with me shooting deer. When the police were trying to reason with him he had said that I had shot him and poisoned his dogs. I was lucky that the local policeman was there. When he was asked "where is your wound" of course he couldnt answer and his dogs were running about unleashed and obviously looked fine. A few weeks later the guy was heard to be ranting about the full moon and Cleopatra pulling her veil across it and went on to say if a particular lady walked past his place again he would slit her throat and clean her fanny out, after this he was sectioned. You just never know who is out there, turning a key might just save your life or your loved ones

 

[Dragunov]

Issue is John, that once the person is in your home, they may force you to open your cabinet against your will. The Police are advocating a multi layer approach to security of your firearms and not the cabinet being the first and last line of defence. Seems reasonable considering the responsibility you're intrusted with?

They try and force you to open the cabinet and you defend yourself you're in the wrong if you hospitalise them! You can't win, unless you bury the body!

 

[mrhim]

[/B]


I disagree most strongly, Sir. It is our right to possess firearms, unless the authorities can show good reason why we should not.
Please read the relevant sections of the 1968 Firearms (and amendments) Act if in doubt.

I can see why you would think that. But one needs to justify every firearm one posses. If we were entitled to have an FAC surely while applying for slots one could just put down. 'just because I want it' and not give further explanation? As you know If you ever did put that down, they would simply reject your application.

 

[flying felix]

I hesitate to argue anything on points of law so I'll just say that I could if I wished. I think it is safe to ask, though, who wants to be a test case?

I have been involved in a case where the person's licence was revoked under similar but different circumstances. It was overturned on appeal because it is reasonable not to expect to be the subject of crime. Speaking to the person's lawyer, this has been proved in court time after time and a number of cases are used as president. Good examples are:

1. Driving home from a stalk, you get caught short and stop to use a public rest room. Gun, ammunition and bolt separated as per guidelines and out of sight in car. Come back to find car broken into and everything gone. - reasonable precautions taken because you do not expect your car to be stolen every time you leave it.

2. Ruff shooter leaves gun in unlocked cupboard within club house. Club house locked but used by other people who have keys - no reasonable precautions taken because he has allowed unauthorised access.

The police will always go for a revocation whenever they can, not out of being bloody minded, but they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The licence holder understood the police's situation and stayed on good relations with the licensing authority and the FEOs.