How many of us that tend to bring this subject to the fore, can put three killing rounds into a running fig 11, two collar bone & one facial, @ 400yards?
How good a shot are the stalkers in the UK?
- Thread starter Jagare
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6pointer
Well-Known Member
Some times i wounder why no one ever wounds a deer. Every stalker that talks on here hits bang on or cleanly misses. I have taken many stalkers out both European and home grown. What i can say is this most continentals will take a shot that the home grown will not consider and are poorer on the target. The best shots i have had are the chaps who have very little stalking and spend a lot of there time at ranges. They in turn are no good unless you can get them on the ground and can spend 30 -40 seconds getting there breathing correct. The best at deer are the lads that came up through the ranks they seem to know what there about and will only pull the trigger when they know they will put the bullet were intended. They can read wild life knowing when to pull the trigger and when to wait. They can shoot off hand off sticks and prone if the chance arrives. Pro stalker well that depends i know some pro,s that have not shot anywhere near what a rec stalker has. Instead he puts deer in front of others and while that will up his stalking skills and his wild life knowledge it will not help his shooting.
I remember doing my DSC1 and the tutor, who was a very learned and experienced guy, saying "this isn't a marksmanship course, but you don't need to be great - just good enough to hit a 4" circle 100% of the time. I can teach anyone to do this in a few hours".
On the shooting assessment day the weather was foul, and he said to all of us "hit a 4" circle 3 times in a row and we'll call it a day - you could all cloverleaf 20 shots in a row here then go out and take a dickhead shot, which isn't something I can control as that's down to your own ethics. So let's get this done and go home!"
He was a H&L shot only man, and I had a lot of respect for him so have lived by this so far. Though under certain circumstances I would now consider neck or head shots.
On the shooting assessment day the weather was foul, and he said to all of us "hit a 4" circle 3 times in a row and we'll call it a day - you could all cloverleaf 20 shots in a row here then go out and take a dickhead shot, which isn't something I can control as that's down to your own ethics. So let's get this done and go home!"
He was a H&L shot only man, and I had a lot of respect for him so have lived by this so far. Though under certain circumstances I would now consider neck or head shots.
caorach
Well-Known Member
It is good to keep all your options open and good to remember that those people on the internet who don't do this, or don't do that also don't go stalking with you and so never find themselves in exactly the same circumstances as you do.
I'm a fan of the H&L shot myself on the basis that if the animal runs and I don't recover it then it is almost certainly dead somewhere out there. On the other hand I shoot sika in commercial forestry and at least half the time a neck or head shot is the only one you get - all you see is a head peering at you from over the heather or out of the edge of the forestry. I only take facing towards or away neck shots. It is also the case that a chest shot sika will run a long way and that can make recovery next to impossible, or at least highly unlikely. Given that it can be a welfare issue to meet a cull target, that a missed neck shot is likely to be a clean miss, that it is good practise to ensure you can recover any deer you shoot among other things it may well be possible to make a welfare argument in favour of neck shooting. However, arguments on the internet don't much matter. You have to make the best shot you can while balancing up a lot of variables and if you do that every time you take a shot then, no matter what some bloke on the internet says, you know that you have done the right thing with the best intentions.
As it happens, I had to do a shooting test today, 3 shots at 100m in a 4" group. Yes I used the bipod. What shocked me was the fact that I was 22cm to the right 
......
I use this rifle only every now and again, lately, but the last time I shot at something it dropped on the spot, I wasn't aware of knocking it anywhere.
Once I adjusted, thankfully all holes were in a 4" group, even more happy as they were within a 1", I hate with a passion grouping and zeroing, I always take time in getting the group tight, not only for my piece of mind, but also lets people within the group see that I can atleast shoot.
TJ
......I use this rifle only every now and again, lately, but the last time I shot at something it dropped on the spot, I wasn't aware of knocking it anywhere.
Once I adjusted, thankfully all holes were in a 4" group, even more happy as they were within a 1", I hate with a passion grouping and zeroing, I always take time in getting the group tight, not only for my piece of mind, but also lets people within the group see that I can atleast shoot.
TJ
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
Sadly, the limiting factor isn't always the shooter, but his/her equipment!
It maddens me to see some very experienced stalkers (who can actually shoot very well!) turn up with equipment that is less than satisfactory!
Shot out old rifles with little more than an old air rifle scope on top of some crappy old mounts and a box full of the cheapest factory rounds that they can buy (normally PRVI partisan or whatever they are) which don't actually group with their rifle. I can partly understand young novices turning up on DSC 1 courses equipped in such a manner as they often don't know any better and it's a lot of money to fork out initially to get kitted out properly. It's the old and bold types which annoy me that insist on doing things on a tight budget when they probably don't need to! (I know several of these!).
Not many of us can actually 'out shoot' our equipment these days as most modern factory rifles are very good out of the box with the right choice of ammo. Sadly though, there are some folks that can easily out shoot their rifles which choose not to because they are too tight! If you fall into that category and are financially able to rectify it - then why haven't you????
It shows little or no respect for deer welfare, or even personal pride for that matter! If I can't group better than 1" with any of my rifles, I personally won't use them to shoot deer with.
That may sound a little harsh to some folk, but it's my choice. As a professional stalker, I require 100% confidence in my equipment and that comes at a price. However, for the sake of deer welfare and personal competence, it's a price I am happy to pay!
MS
It maddens me to see some very experienced stalkers (who can actually shoot very well!) turn up with equipment that is less than satisfactory!
Shot out old rifles with little more than an old air rifle scope on top of some crappy old mounts and a box full of the cheapest factory rounds that they can buy (normally PRVI partisan or whatever they are) which don't actually group with their rifle. I can partly understand young novices turning up on DSC 1 courses equipped in such a manner as they often don't know any better and it's a lot of money to fork out initially to get kitted out properly. It's the old and bold types which annoy me that insist on doing things on a tight budget when they probably don't need to! (I know several of these!).
Not many of us can actually 'out shoot' our equipment these days as most modern factory rifles are very good out of the box with the right choice of ammo. Sadly though, there are some folks that can easily out shoot their rifles which choose not to because they are too tight! If you fall into that category and are financially able to rectify it - then why haven't you????
It shows little or no respect for deer welfare, or even personal pride for that matter! If I can't group better than 1" with any of my rifles, I personally won't use them to shoot deer with.
That may sound a little harsh to some folk, but it's my choice. As a professional stalker, I require 100% confidence in my equipment and that comes at a price. However, for the sake of deer welfare and personal competence, it's a price I am happy to pay!
MS
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Yes this is another thing that people like me struggle with when we go to Scotland and the like, Norfolk is as flat as a pancake and not really hard stalking compared to up north.....
Paul at Fechan
Well-Known Member
I think we need an actual SD annual competition to see who's the boss. Simple 9 shot competition.
3 shots at 100m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 200m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 40 freehand standing and no sticks 100 points per hit in the 4" kill zone 10 second time limit
maximum score is 500 and the best bit is some people might actually score negative!!!!
Who's man enough then?
3 shots at 100m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 200m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 40 freehand standing and no sticks 100 points per hit in the 4" kill zone 10 second time limit
maximum score is 500 and the best bit is some people might actually score negative!!!!
Who's man enough then?
Never really thought much about other people's shooting until i went for my level 1 and did the shoot test there,on the test range i was shocked how bad shots there were out there,there were 7 off us and only 3 past first go,there was me ,biker 1 who came a close second
and mannlicher 308 who i now class as mates but the rest were shocking.One guy was making that many excuses that this was wrong and that was wrong and eventually past just.Others were blaming there guns.but on the day ever one was told have there gun zeroed and ready ,so personaly i think theres a lot more bad shot out there than you think 
and mannlicher 308 who i now class as mates but the rest were shocking.One guy was making that many excuses that this was wrong and that was wrong and eventually past just.Others were blaming there guns.but on the day ever one was told have there gun zeroed and ready ,so personaly i think theres a lot more bad shot out there than you think
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yep, 8hrs on the steep hill yesterday was tough, yet, didn't stop us putting it where it matters
here's a couple of pictures of my father and I, he took an 8 pointer, I opted for a cull stag.
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Offroad Gary
Well-Known Member
Can we do it in the lamp?I think we need an actual SD annual competition to see who's the boss. Simple 9 shot competition.
3 shots at 100m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 200m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 40 freehand standing and no sticks 100 points per hit in the 4" kill zone 10 second time limit
maximum score is 500 and the best bit is some people might actually score negative!!!!
Who's man enough then?
Virbius
Well-Known Member
Spot on there! I climbed Killimanjaro 2 years ago - I was living in Norfolk then, not the most suitable topography for mountain training!
+1 to that then your bit for a beerI think we need an actual SD annual competition to see who's the boss. Simple 9 shot competition.
3 shots at 100m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 200m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 40 freehand standing and no sticks 100 points per hit in the 4" kill zone 10 second time limit
maximum score is 500 and the best bit is some people might actually score negative!!!!
Who's man enough then?
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
I think we need an actual SD annual competition to see who's the boss. Simple 9 shot competition.
3 shots at 100m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 200m Scored at 100 minus the group width in mm
3 shots at 40 freehand standing and no sticks 100 points per hit in the 4" kill zone 10 second time limit
maximum score is 500 and the best bit is some people might actually score negative!!!!
Who's man enough then?
Sure, I will give it a go but I have never shot a deer free hand or over 150yds so what is that a test of.
I did a rifle test for a FC lease.
It was shocking.
My rifle was in the RFD's
I had to borrow my father's rifle which had previously been at a military range piloted by my sister and had been zeroed at 600yds.
I knew it was 56 clicks to get it down to normal zero from there and explained to the ranger what I was doing.
It was ****ing down, I had to stand around waiting, I and the rifle got soaked before we got into the "hut" where I was invited to lie down on a **** wet, stoney floor and use a **** wet sand bag as a rest to shoot at 100yds
Looking through the steamy rain dropped covered lens my father's 4x32 Nikko scope and having wound down 56 clicks I could barely see the target on the A4 sheet, couldnt get comfortable and couldnt move the sandbag as it weighed 1000lbs!.
I missed the 4 inch circle with all three shots.
However as the group was 4" above the ring and roughly the same diameter the warden was gracious enough to allow me to have another crack. as we concluded perhaps it was 66 clicks!
I aimed 6" low and put three in the ring! just!
Wet, cold, uncomfortable, using unfamiliar equipment in an unfamiliar environment is a test of shooting.
200yds on a sunny day off a tripod on a bench is a test of rifles/ammunition
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
yep, 8hrs on the steep hill yesterday was tough, yet, didn't stop us putting it where it matters
did you blow that antler off with a face on head shot!?
did you blow that antler off with a face on head shot!?
No he was going for a H L shot
No he was going for a H L shot
ho ho ho. actually he never had a 2nd antler, no sign of coronets or anything, biggest beast I've shot for a while, just over 300lb larder weight. testicles where like walnuts. he was an old chap.
yep, 8hrs on the steep hill yesterday was tough, yet, didn't stop us putting it where it matters
Some crackers there mate and some beautiful scenery mate your very lucky
I bet that hurt mate....
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