John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
are sheilas counted in this?
How much does "Made in the UK" matter to you?
- Thread starter JMikeyH
- Start date
If it IS actually more robust and durable, then there would be no question.
However, so often ‘made in Britain’ products are actually just a bit amateurish. You can see they had a good idea. Often they start with quality materials. But somewhere along the line they run into trouble. So the finished product is more like a bit of a prototype, rough round the edges and inconsistent. Then they struggle with orders. And the customer service is dismal or non existent. Supply is patchy, with batches coming to sale at unpredictable intervals, or they resort to direct order with lengthy lead times. All the while you’re paying an enormous premium for something that you could get tomorrow morning from Amazon.
Every now and then, one of them gets it together and spends a few years producing something good. But inevitably they sell it, production moves to China, and quality takes a dive.
But best of luck!
It’s the three finger PM quandary for me.
You have a choice between speed of delivery, price and quality. Generally speaking, you can’t have all three.
For example, would I buy a cheap, easily available rifle from China of average to poor quality? Absolutely not. But neither would I buy an ultra expensive long delivery British rifle of excellent quality.
Cheap, easily available Chinese optics of reasonable quality? Of course, and I have. But I also have expensive, easily available German and US/Japanese optics.
You have a choice between speed of delivery, price and quality. Generally speaking, you can’t have all three.
For example, would I buy a cheap, easily available rifle from China of average to poor quality? Absolutely not. But neither would I buy an ultra expensive long delivery British rifle of excellent quality.
Cheap, easily available Chinese optics of reasonable quality? Of course, and I have. But I also have expensive, easily available German and US/Japanese optics.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Having cast a vote for important I'm being somewhat hypocritical, apart from some early oak furniture (made from Danish oak trees according to Victor Chinnery!) just looking around my house, gun cabinet and car I'm hard pushed to find anything of UK origin!
Depends what I'm buying, If I'm buying cheap stuff for the Allotment then it will be Chinese or anywhere cheap, If I'm after a washing machine or other electrical equipment I try stay with British made but this is getting harder and tends to be made in Europe.
Even some of the jackets I have with a Union Jack tag on them say designed in the UK but manufactured abroad when you read the small print.
Even some of the jackets I have with a Union Jack tag on them say designed in the UK but manufactured abroad when you read the small print.
Quality>Price>Warranty>Customer Service>Place of Manufacture
You're lying to yourself buying most things "Made in the UK" when all the parts are from China i say this with first hand experience
Only exception to this for me is Meat, I always try buy local from a butchers and UK Sourced
You're lying to yourself buying most things "Made in the UK" when all the parts are from China i say this with first hand experience
Only exception to this for me is Meat, I always try buy local from a butchers and UK Sourced
I agree with you, then find myself thinking of Phil Ogden who bucks the trend brilliantly. All is not lost!
I think many things are important, but you only need to be concerned over "customer service, come back, warranty", if the quality of the parts is unreliable in the first place ?
And generally speaking, if a company is producing a "quality" part, they will also pride themselves on their customer service, and warranty !
This comes at a price, regardless of where it's made, but it's all relative.
1) Quality, it has to do the job well. and reliably.
2) As above !
3) Price, is it VFM/cost effective ?
4) Regardless of origin, ideally, I want it UK supplied. This helps, or should, help with supply, and support.
If all of the above are met, AND it's made in the UK, that's great too, but not my priority.
Nimrod1960
Well-Known Member
If you are looking to manufacture at scale, sourcing from China will always be cheaper.
Beware though. I have a very good mate who ran a substantial kitchen ware business sourcing from mostly from China.
He used to price in the fact that despite patents and IP in contracts the Chinese would have cheaper copies on the market within 12 months.
Smaller scale higher quality might work sourced in uk despite the substantial headwinds from the current govt. I am frequently delighted to meet people who still have successful “proper” high quality specialist metal bashing businesses in the blackcountry.
Good luck to you.
Beware though. I have a very good mate who ran a substantial kitchen ware business sourcing from mostly from China.
He used to price in the fact that despite patents and IP in contracts the Chinese would have cheaper copies on the market within 12 months.
Smaller scale higher quality might work sourced in uk despite the substantial headwinds from the current govt. I am frequently delighted to meet people who still have successful “proper” high quality specialist metal bashing businesses in the blackcountry.
Good luck to you.
Ouhout
Well-Known Member
Not sure if this is of any help, but I often think of the days where certain countries produced certain goods & to a high standard.
For example to own an Orvis fly rod when I was young 1990's was something you hankered after until you could work and buy one for yourself. It was actually one of the first things I bought when I started earning some pounds...
The cost of fishing & stalking goods (rifles, rods etc) vs the cost of actually fishing & stalking is out of balance...
I'm also of the opinion that the world has become too dependent on China - so I'll close in saying that if you decide to have your product made in another country, I wouldn't mind if it was non uk made but would also prefer it to be non Chinese made...
For example to own an Orvis fly rod when I was young 1990's was something you hankered after until you could work and buy one for yourself. It was actually one of the first things I bought when I started earning some pounds...
The cost of fishing & stalking goods (rifles, rods etc) vs the cost of actually fishing & stalking is out of balance...
I'm also of the opinion that the world has become too dependent on China - so I'll close in saying that if you decide to have your product made in another country, I wouldn't mind if it was non uk made but would also prefer it to be non Chinese made...
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There is no reason why we cannot manufacture good quality products in the UK. But the UK has two major challenges:
A chronic lack of finance to fund the equipment and infrastructure needed. Funders want a short term return on capital - within a year or two. If you are going to invest in quality machinery and staff you need a much longer period.
Size of market. The UK is a small market, especially when you are producing niche high performance products. There are really three types of business.
1) Owner / designer making product with a bit of support from a few staff - nowt wrong with this but very dependent on key individuals.
2) Typical SME, 20, 30 staff, probably owner managed making good products with more systems in place and clear distinction in roles. Still very dependent on key staff
3) The small corporate - properly structured, good internal career progression and not reliant upon key individuals. Able to support investment in staff, technology and infrastructure.
Type 1) can probably survive in local market - enough income to support a few people. A specialist can probably survive in a UK market.
But types 2 and 3 really need access to international markets as the UK is simply not big enough to justify investment in quality manufacturing.
In the good old days of Great British manufacturing the world was pink and British industry had unfettered access to very large markets. Go to any village in the middle of the African bush or the outback and there were cast iron cooking pots labelled “Falkirk” - as in cast in Falkirk Scotland. Landrover was successful in the early days, again large access to markets.
Empire went away and we replaced it with the EU. We never really embraced it. European small businesses considered as a whole market. Whereas most businesses in UK considered next county as export.
Nowadays UK has very high cost of land, property and energy. Lack of skills and limited access to highly skilled / educated professionals. Capital is free to flow and will invest where it makes the best return.
Pre Pandemic UK was the leader in investment into technology companies. Nowadays, investment in Uk tech companies is right down. The money is now bring invested into European based companies as they have access to the markets, people and skills. UK tech - well move it European base and it gets invested into and grown.
And those working in those companies get good salaries and pay good taxes. Take a look at Ineos Grenadier - designed in the UK, but built in Hambach with European wide supply chain. Land Rover Defender - Ditto. Rifle and Optics that you use every day. Chances are German, Italian or Scandinavian built, wheras in previous Generations would have been built in Birmingham. Fishing Rods Hardy, Greys etc - even top end - all in the Far East, and no longer in Alnwick or Aberdeen.
A chronic lack of finance to fund the equipment and infrastructure needed. Funders want a short term return on capital - within a year or two. If you are going to invest in quality machinery and staff you need a much longer period.
Size of market. The UK is a small market, especially when you are producing niche high performance products. There are really three types of business.
1) Owner / designer making product with a bit of support from a few staff - nowt wrong with this but very dependent on key individuals.
2) Typical SME, 20, 30 staff, probably owner managed making good products with more systems in place and clear distinction in roles. Still very dependent on key staff
3) The small corporate - properly structured, good internal career progression and not reliant upon key individuals. Able to support investment in staff, technology and infrastructure.
Type 1) can probably survive in local market - enough income to support a few people. A specialist can probably survive in a UK market.
But types 2 and 3 really need access to international markets as the UK is simply not big enough to justify investment in quality manufacturing.
In the good old days of Great British manufacturing the world was pink and British industry had unfettered access to very large markets. Go to any village in the middle of the African bush or the outback and there were cast iron cooking pots labelled “Falkirk” - as in cast in Falkirk Scotland. Landrover was successful in the early days, again large access to markets.
Empire went away and we replaced it with the EU. We never really embraced it. European small businesses considered as a whole market. Whereas most businesses in UK considered next county as export.
Nowadays UK has very high cost of land, property and energy. Lack of skills and limited access to highly skilled / educated professionals. Capital is free to flow and will invest where it makes the best return.
Pre Pandemic UK was the leader in investment into technology companies. Nowadays, investment in Uk tech companies is right down. The money is now bring invested into European based companies as they have access to the markets, people and skills. UK tech - well move it European base and it gets invested into and grown.
And those working in those companies get good salaries and pay good taxes. Take a look at Ineos Grenadier - designed in the UK, but built in Hambach with European wide supply chain. Land Rover Defender - Ditto. Rifle and Optics that you use every day. Chances are German, Italian or Scandinavian built, wheras in previous Generations would have been built in Birmingham. Fishing Rods Hardy, Greys etc - even top end - all in the Far East, and no longer in Alnwick or Aberdeen.
Ouhout
Well-Known Member
Spot on...
This is why China is cleaning house. Long term goals and steady finance. There are "quirks" of course. No soap opera embarassing political clown show
This 100%. My wife is Nigerian, Edo. When I went to visit "the family" for the first time in 2012 in Benin City people asked where I was from and said "Leicester". The kids all said "Leicester City Football Club". The much older generation, almost to a one, all said "Imperial Typewriters...we had one on our office...".
Now most everything that isn't local made or made elsewhere in Africa is Made in China such as the exit signs in the Kada Plaza cineme and entertainment mall below where the exit signs say EXIT in English and below in smaller letters the same in Chinese.
We have very much as HEYM says lost that market. All English speaking, all part of the Commonwealth all with established trade routes and banking houses and we could have still been selling Made in Britain goods in exchange for oil, minerals, lamb and butter and etc.. All lost to China and who's fault? Not Thatcher the damage was done. The fault was Ted Heath and the obesession to join the then Common Market.
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The town "Chelmsford" I did my time as an apprentice was the hub of engineering in the county, Marconi's is the only one left
15 big firms and the smaller ones who supplied them are now houses with just a name on the wall for Hoffmans the bearing company who kept going through the war, despite the bombing raids as my Nan worked there in the war as a tea lady and as you know every one like a cup of tea. RIP Nan.
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