How old is this Roe ?

[William Grant]

Glen we can compare the teeth of yours and the old buck i shot in fife 2 weeks ago. Id say by that picture your bucks teeth are in better nick than my own teeth lol . Look forward to our next trip up north mate.

ATB wallace

 

[Glen Cadwallader]

HaHa !! I gave it the trademark .270 Dentistry as you probably guessed.

Hurry up and get home mate, we have a power of stalking to do

 

[Mr Lewis]

I would say its an Old Buck 7 years plus


I was always told the first rule of roe buck stalking is never trust the antlers to age a buck they will invarebly decieve you

 

[borderman]

For what its worth, I'll take a stab at 7-8 and going back judging from the teeth.
Cheers

 

[Glen Cadwallader]

You're not far off chaps. He is certainly 7-9 and I think without a cross section that is as close as we are going to get on this one!

 

[6pointer]

He is more than than likely to be 7 years and 6 weeks old that allowing for him being born at the optimum time of year for roe deer births.

 

[morena]

My observations on this posting. Unfortunately no teeth available for sectioning.
A buck with a grossly abnormal dental arrangement. In the photo of the buck in the skin he has only partially shed his winter coat which is late for the time he was culled.Also there is gross lack of body condition.

I have marked the lower jaw. Virtually no wear on P1,wear on P2,P3 abnormal,M1 wear excessive,M2 reasonably normal M3 probably normal for age.If you look carefully the crowns of the teeth above the gum line vary and are not consistent with normal wear.

Normal jaw. The area between the inner and outer cusps which show good dentine layers is the infundibulum.

Top jaw. Right side. Infundibulum showing as dark areas on M3, mesial of M2 and just visible through the enamel on M1.Very pale coloured dentine just visible on some surfaces older animal gets denser. Formed throughout the life of the animal until it obliterates the pulp.

Left side of top jaw. Premolars 3 and M1 partially erupted no M2 and M3.There are 2 dark areas on each of the teeth. One in the middle and the second on the lip side. This is the infundibulum being exposed at 2 positions due to abnormal wear.

First photo normal tooth demonstrating wear plains ( looking from the back of the animal )

Second photo upper normal tooth explaining the occurrence of double exposure of infundibulum

Going on the dentine exposure with so called ' white eye' on the Premolars and M1

4/5 yo

I leave you to age a normal jaw with your reasons and after some time will post the correct age

 

[Glen Cadwallader]

Morena,

Thank you very much indeed for that, hugely informative.

 

[Mr Lewis]

My observations on this posting. Unfortunately no teeth available for sectioning.
A buck with a grossly abnormal dental arrangement. In the photo of the buck in the skin he has only partially shed his winter coat which is late for the time he was culled.Also there is gross lack of body condition.

I have marked the lower jaw. Virtually no wear on P1,wear on P2,P3 abnormal,M1 wear excessive,M2 reasonably normal M3 probably normal for age.If you look carefully the crowns of the teeth above the gum line vary and are not consistent with normal wear.

Normal jaw. The area between the inner and outer cusps which show good dentine layers is the infundibulum.

Top jaw. Right side. Infundibulum showing as dark areas on M3, mesial of M2 and just visible through the enamel on M1.Very pale coloured dentine just visible on some surfaces older animal gets denser. Formed throughout the life of the animal until it obliterates the pulp.

Left side of top jaw. Premolars 3 and M1 partially erupted no M2 and M3.There are 2 dark areas on each of the teeth. One in the middle and the second on the lip side. This is the infundibulum being exposed at 2 positions due to abnormal wear.

First photo normal tooth demonstrating wear plains ( looking from the back of the animal )

Second photo upper normal tooth explaining the occurrence of double exposure of infundibulum

Going on the dentine exposure with so called ' white eye' on the Premolars and M1

4/5 yo

I leave you to age a normal jaw with your reasons and after some time will post the correct age

Morena,

The top photo shows normal wear for an old animal the fact it was still showing signs of being in winter coat is further evidence of this being an old animal.

In deer PM4 and M1 usually wear the most as shown in the first photo

In roe deer by the age of 6 the dentine of M1 is more than twice as wide as the enamel and will have taken on a cupped apperance , M2 the dentine will be wider than the enamel. Other things to look at are the size / roughness of the jaw bone ridges , length ratio of the nasal bone / cartilidge and the amount of fusing of the skull joint lines

 

[glogin]

Pm3

 

[Mr Lewis]

PM4 actually

commonly called PM3 by deer stalkers but in biology / zoology terms it is PM4

 

[glogin]

Tusk is PM1 then?

 

[bogtrotter]

I will go with morena's theory, not due to his superior knowledge and vast experience.

But simply because he arrived at the same conclusion as me.

 

[bogtrotter]

Tusk is PM1 then?

No its PSP

Professional Stalkers Perks.