Humane Animal Dispatch (HDA) course

[J@son]

In the area where I live (near Stroud in Glos.) and work (near Colerne in Wilts) a fair few deer are hit by cars every year. We had a terrible incident on the road opposite where I work in which a man was killed after his car collided with a deer and then hit a tree. Also, I live very close to Rodborough Common, which is grazed by cattle and horses, and a year does not go by without several animals being hit by cars. My neighbour lost his favourite cow in a collision with a car only a few months ago. The cow survived the initial impact but was badly injured, however, the police were very reluctant to shoot it. It was only when, after 45 minutes, my neighbour completely lost his rag that the police produced a gun and finally put the beast out of its misery.

My FAC already authorises me to put down fallen stock but I would like to take an HDA course (to cover all bases) before offering my services (gratis) to the Committee that runs the common and the Police. When I took DSC1 the advice from our instructor regarding HDA was very simple: avoid it like the plague! And I can see why. In offering to come out to an RTA involving an injured animal, you are putting yourself in a difficult situation that isn't of your making and that you don't need to be in. Moreover, if things go wrong, your ticket is on the line. I get this. But at the end of the day someone has to offer to do it and I would like to help if I can.

I wondered if anyone has any experience or advice they can offer me on the HDA course and offering to put down injured animals at the roadside - particularly with reference to Glos. Constabulary. All perspectives gratefully received. Thanks in advance!

 

[Dickie]

Jelen

 

[Uncle f]

So we have humane dispatch semi auto pistols as a company. Individually held by me and my staff. HOWEVER these are used on private site as part of paid employment and we are insured for this

Recently I was asked to participate in a RTI humane dispatch volunteer scheme. So I was asked to pay for my own light bar and high via jacket that needed to be worn whenever I was called out. I have to attend a free days course about working safely on the highway(s). Then and this is just great I had to provide my own insurance which covered me when I was attending the RTI site!!! My BDS and CCovers insurance will not cover me. Nor will my commercial policy with axa. I could have added it at £240.00 for the year extra

needless to say I didn’t bother. Until the authorities allow suitable dispensation for individuals for these schemes such as an insurance policy etc and free PPE then why would anyone risk there life, there FAC and also potentially open themselves up for prosecution I appreciate these are extremes and not massively Likely to happen but issues can certainly arise

 

[Uncle f]

Also an a more positive note and to answer the OP the BDS do humane dispatch courses quite frequently not sure what the Covid situation means to those courses though.

 

[Alantoo]

In the area where I live (near Stroud in Glos.) and work (near Colerne in Wilts) a fair few deer are hit by cars every year. We had a terrible incident on the road opposite where I work in which a man was killed after his car collided with a deer and then hit a tree. Also, I live very close to Rodborough Common, which is grazed by cattle and horses, and a year does not go by without several animals being hit by cars. My neighbour lost his favourite cow in a collision with a car only a few months ago. The cow survived the initial impact but was badly injured, however, the police were very reluctant to shoot it. It was only when, after 45 minutes, my neighbour completely lost his rag that the police produced a gun and finally put the beast out of its misery.

My FAC already authorises me to put down fallen stock but I would like to take an HDA course (to cover all bases) before offering my services (gratis) to the Committee that runs the common and the Police. When I took DSC1 the advice from our instructor regarding HDA was very simple: avoid it like the plague! And I can see why. In offering to come out to an RTA involving an injured animal, you are putting yourself in a difficult situation that isn't of your making and that you don't need to be in. Moreover, if things go wrong, your ticket is on the line. I get this. But at the end of the day someone has to offer to do it and I would like to help if I can.

I wondered if anyone has any experience or advice they can offer me on the HDA course and offering to put down injured animals at the roadside - particularly with reference to Glos. Constabulary. All perspectives gratefully received. Thanks in advance!

My experience is directly opposite of yours and @Uncle f

I am in the Gloucester Constabulary HAD scheme and was called out on a foul tempest of a night to a deer on Rodborough common a few months ago and one at the foot of Toadsmoor two or three weeks ago. I am surprised there was any reluctance on the Police's part to call out a dispatcher to your friend's cow...I am aware of a number of others in the HAD scheme who have been called to deal with Cows on Rodborough Common.

In Gloucestershire the Police themselves do not do the dispatching, although there are a lot of armed response units in the area for obvious reasons. Quite often it is the armed response who are the officers at the scene when I arrive...a few years ago they were at one that I attended just down the hill from you in Rodborough Avenue.

Your FAC is not on the line if you are part of the scheme in Gloucestershire....unless you run amok in a supermarket on the way home...when called out you are given the incident number and from that moment on you are covered by the Constabulary insurance. Although I always take a rifle "just in case" I have only ever used a .410 shotgun with No. 5s. All my rifles are conditioned for HAD and I have solid slug condition on my FAC for the three shotgun gauges I have.

BASC membership insurance covers you for Humane Dispatch...

"All BASC members, regardless of the level of membership (excluding supporters), are covered under the Association's group liability insurance policy as part of their membership for the humane dispatch of animals, within the normal course of their recreational shooting.

In addition, members who are approved by authorities such as the police, RSPCA or the Forestry Commission to carry out humane dispatch can benefit from the liability cover if they are called out by such an authority to carry out a legal dispatch.

The policy does not cover the humane dispatch of owned farm stock or domestic animals."

As I am pretty sure does the BDS.


None of us on the Glos. scheme have been required to use a light bar and although I was only issued with a High Vis waistcoat and leggings the earlier group received full High Vis weather proofs.

The main BDS HAD course is run just along the road from you at Cirencester Agricultural University.

Alan

 

[Uncle f]

Alan ask for clarification on that wording as I’m sure the exclusions include the public highway and footways!!!
I was told I would only be covered under the police insurance if an officer(s) was in attendance at the time of the call out

 

[Alantoo]

Alan ask for clarification on that wording as I’m sure the exclusions include the public highway and footways!!!
I was told I would only be covered under the police insurance if an officer(s) was in attendance at the time of the call out

It is not illegal to shoot from a public Highway or footpath so on what grounds they would exclude them I don't know...when I skimmed through the policy to find the bit I quoted I did not spot that amongst the exclusions.

I was told I was covered when we are called out. And there have been one or two occasions when there were no officers present...on the half dozen occasions of having been called out directly by a member of the public (friend or acquaintance) I have rung in to the control room and reported the event and acquired an incident number to cover me within the scheme.

I understood that having gone through the second level vetting and been issued with a Police Volunteer Identity Card and staff number...and that combined with the incident number / control room blessing meant we were covered like a "special" whether there was a regular officer present or not...I will double check.

But each incident is a one off and you react to the circumstances before you...if I didn't think I could do it safely I wouldn't...insurance or lack of it doesn't enter my thinking. Or I should say I would not take a greater risk because I was insured and reckoning to rely on it.

Alan

 

[Uncle f]

Alan while I agree and understand your arguments and it seems that your scheme is very much more advanced and better administered than the one I was asked to join. There has been no mention of I’d Cards etc.
However without going into to much detail recently I’ve had issues with the police and my firearms. Long story but after a false and malicious accusation (which was unfounded and spurious) my guns were seized. I was arrested. I was released with no further action and no case to answer

I am now pursuing private action against an individual. However it was up to me and my cctv on my property and my gun room and office to prove my innocence. The police were ready to take it further.
It was up-to me to prove my innocence and not the other way round.
The reason I say this is I threatened legal action to get my firearms back which they are now. It took two weeks. I was told it would take six months minimum to make sure there is no revenge or retribution on my part towards said individual.
Do not rely on the police or insurance companies to help you out they just can’t wait to hang you out to dry.
im now battling to have my fingerprints and DNA removed from records which I’m legally not entitled to but the police can under there discretion have them removed if they see fit

I have respect for the police BUT after this incarceration for 20 hours and a battle to have my guns restored. (My FAC was never revoked) my views have been watered down somewhat.
while I applaud your sentiments you need to have protection in place because as sure as eggs are eggs they won’t think twice to come at you should something go wrong.
So for your protection I would ask for a written and signed risk assessment (as no insurance is valid without one should something go wrong) written confirmation of there obligations to you and equally your obligations to them. Written confirmation of there insurance(s) cover for you. Confirmation that your FAC is conditioned so you can use a firearm/shotgun/air rifle on or within 50ft of the centre of a public highway

I’m sure these are all things that you have thought about and executed. I just don’t trust any of em mate it upto you to make sure your protected mate that all

good luck

 

[Alantoo]

I did quick look around for the scheme documentation to confirm what I am reporting but it is buried too deep! And I am off to look with the Thermal Spotter at the two pairs of deer eyes that just reflected from the head torch at the top of the garden ....

Alan

 

[J@son]

Thanks - for the responses. I spoke to BDS before posting and have asked them to let me know of the next HAD course in this area. It sounds as though the BDS won’t be running any courses from the RAC in Cirencester for the next 6 -12 months - I believe the College is reluctant to let third parties use its premises because of CV19. But there may be a course running in North Somerset before too long - in which case I will get myself on that.

 

[J@son]

The copper who eventually put down my mate’s cow was armed response and used his own firearm to do it. I suspect he wasn’t supposed to... hence his reluctance.

 

[J@son]

I am in the Gloucester Constabulary HAD scheme

Alan - any advice about signing up? I would be very keen to hear from you if you have.

 

[Alantoo]

Alan - any advice about signing up? I would be very keen to hear from you if you have.

No magic route...but obviously if you are wanting to join the Gloucestershire scheme it would not be a disadvantage to attend the locally run course, just from a potential networking point of view with local HAD people.

When I did the course we were told that there were a lot more people doing the courses around the country than there were places on schemes...I seem to remember that I heard that Thames Valley (?) studied the Gloucestershire scheme and the BDS training and decided they would organise their own version of both.

I was a bit diffident about volunteering which may have counted in my favour for acceptance...a number of students on my course were not particularly discreet about doing the course in order to acquire hand guns, both the scheme organisers and police are extremely wary about motivation I think.

The BDS clearly state...

"Please note that not all Constabularies operate a HAD system involving Volunteers and of those that do, some require people to attend their own, in house training courses.

If you are looking at attending the BDS course in order to join a Volunteer HAD scheme please check the requirements with your individual Constabulary first. Also, whilst the BDS course covers the use of various firearms, it should not be used as justification for obtaining a Firearm Certificate or specialist firearms"

My bold text

Alan

 

[Alantoo]

The copper who eventually put down my mate’s cow was armed response and used his own firearm to do it. I suspect he wasn’t supposed to... hence his reluctance.

That reluctance is not surprising.

But why the control room had not called out a HAD scheme member is surprising, there are at least 4 within 25 minutes of Rodborough Common.

Alan

 

[J@son]

Thanks Alan. All good advice.

 

[cookingfat]

Jason,
I can only telly what happens in my Constabulary and they are all different in how they approach road traffic accidents with deer and other animals,
All the members on the scheme in our constabulary are police trained and had to pass a course with them before being aloud to volunteer and once Covid allows there will be more scenario based training with the firearms team and BARTA( British Animal Rescue & Trauma care )
All volunteers have conditions on the FAC's to allow them dispatch on the roadside once a incident number is generated.
We are classed as police support members and covered by constabulary insurance.
Once the updated training is completed we will be able to claim mileage allow many won't bother.
There are some good training courses run by the BDS and Jellen but its difficult training for real life call outs, they are all different and sometimes the rolling risk changes so fast!
good luck with it.

 

[sikamalc]

I have no doubt that each constabulary will treat this differently.
Early last year, pre Covid, West Sussex police approached a few stalkers regarding being on a call out list for RTA. I was emailed and both the local council and police required anyone on the list having experience and Level 1.
There was to be a full days training. After which those on the list would be given a mobile orange light for the top of their vehicle and authority to carry out road side dispatch. All of this has come to a grinding halt due to the pandemic.

Needless to say any RTA in and around the estate I manage I usually undertake. And will continue to do so. We have not had so many RTA's this past year, possibly due to the fact that there has been less traffic on the back road that cuts through part of the estate. No doubt lock down has seen to this.

 

[User00025]

I used to do HD for one police force and never had the slightest problem, other than having to beat one pair of Bobbies to the animal. If they were there first they claimed the animal once despatched. I didn't want it but it became a game of get there first.
Since those days some dealings with the police similar to Uncle f's but involving family members have soured my feelings towards the boys in blue. Attitudes and the law are in many ways so detrimental to ordinary members of the public that it cannot be wondered at that a bad opinion is formed. Simple examples, clobber a burglar or poacher and see who gets punished. If the said burglar jumps out of a window and through a glass roof you can be liable for scaring him to sustain injuries. Let the police handle the RTA's it is after all their job.

 

[sharkbait]

I offered to help met police a few year back and was told that their own firearm response team take care of it! Since then I've talked to a couple of other stalkers that claim they dispatch for the met police!
Well they cant say I didnt offer

 

[Sabian223]

The BDS course is really good, I'm a little bit biased as I knew the instructor personally but given its the first course I've seen him run, I was genuinely impressed. Kept everyone really engaged and we all walked away learning something new and with the competencies required to deal with had scenarios. I'd advise waiting until lockdown is over and attending one of those courses in person